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Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by Knufen on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @09:01AM (#25506319)
As a medicinal chemist working on human reproduction I can give a little perspective (though not as much as a bio chemist with knowledge of human reproduction).

These things are very hard to quantify, but all studies so far points to microplastic being bad. Not poisonous like lead, or deadly like uranium in ceramics. Instead they are a bit more sneaky. While plastic in itself is not so bad, all the other stuff in plastic is. Take BPA [1], a known endocrine disruptor. It is especially bad for humans in the early stages of development and has life long effects. Boys will have less testosterone (leading to multiple knock off effects) and girls will have earlier puberty, more breast and other types of cancer. Because the doses are so low the effect are not typically seen in individuals. Instead we detect them on population scale. An example is the testosterone levels of men is dwindling each year [2]. Of course correlation does not equal causation, but more and more studies are pointing to chemical disruption.

[1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21605673/ [2] https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/92/1/196/2598434?login...

Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by starkd on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @11:55AM (#25508329)
I think what's missing is a risk/benefit approach. No doubt concerning evidence it's harmful, but does the harm outway the benefits we've seen from plastics? And there have been benefits. Not just convenience, but the ability to scale packaging as well as better hygiene as a prevention from infectious diseases.
Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by dusted on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @02:07PM (#25509878)
I don't think one is needed. Plastics helped us to get here, now we're ready to look for the next step, or solutions to the current problem. Most of the technologies have had a more positive effect than negative, but that's no reason to ignore the new negative effects.

Coal power definitely saved a lot of lives, and probably more than it killed, but it introduced new problems, not worse one, highly probably less-bad problems, but problems nevertheless, shouldn't mean that we ban coal tomorrow, but that we should (as we somewhat are) work toward fixing the new problems.

The same goes for all technologies, they generally save a lot of people from A but then causes B which is a new, less efficient source of death. This is one of the situations where we should strive to have our cake and eat it too. Hell, asbestos probably helped save more lives than it took, we just found something less terrible to replace it with.

Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by starkd on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @06:03PM (#25512478)
Ofcourse. Any new technology or product will have negative repercussions. Just a question of the extent. But don't assume newer is necessarily is better. There's also a perverse incentive among litigation enthusiasts just to find harm a product does and then amplify it out of proportion. It's kind of a cottage industry. Asbestos was an incredibly efficient insulation. I don't think anything has matched it. Just not when its mishandled.
Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by dusted on Wednesday December 23, 2020 @05:31AM (#25516258)
Yes, that's the thing, a lot of people died of asbestos, but more people would likely have frozen or burned to death without it.. It's good that we're getting rid of it, because we now have the technology to replace almost all of its uses with sufficiently effective and less dangerous alternatives.

It does not mean that its use was a mistake, but it's continued use would be, as we have an intrinsic responsibility to always seek safer alternatives when we discover the negative effects-

Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by contingencies on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @07:00PM (#25512913)
all studies so far points to microplastic being bad. Not poisonous like lead, or deadly like uranium in ceramics.

So will we see the 1% swing back to wooden crockery? Of course, not that McTimber stuff laced with glue, but real wood. But what's in the varnish? Do we stick with unvarnished wood?

Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by spitfire on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @01:06PM (#25509212)
What do you mean uranium in ceramics? I have a decorative piece of uranium glass behind me - Light it up with a UV light and it glows. Is that considered dangerous now?
Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by labawi on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @01:55PM (#25509758)
If you use it for drinking/eating, especially for acidic (or basic) food, or ingest/inhale its fragments/dust, then quite probably yes.
Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by nikolay on Wednesday December 23, 2020 @08:08PM (#25524167)
All potassium-containing foods are radioactive - think bananas and potatoes. All mushrooms, Brazil nuts, and many others are as well. Every time you get on a transcontinental flight, you get irradiated, too.
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Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by magic-chicken on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @09:37AM (#25506614)
What? Are you suggesting that left-leaning voters have a lower level of testosterone than right-leaning voters?

> After all, lead poisoning was suggested as one of the possible reasons for the decline of the Roman empire.

What are you trying to imply here? Microplastic -> Low Testorone -> Socialist government -> Decline of civilisation?

Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by formerly_proven on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @11:56AM (#25508343)
This talking point is posted by sock puppets literally every time a topic like this comes up.
Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by arsome on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @10:04AM (#25506857)
I mean I can sort of follow the logic - testosterone tends to cause more aggressiveness which can often lead to competitiveness, and arguably the basis for capitalist society is putting competitiveness to work. If you decrease the average interest in competitiveness you may see an uptick in socialist leanings and, many capitalists would argue, a decline in overall productivity.

Now, there's obviously many benefits that may also be seen with a less aggressive or even less competitive population, but the basic principle doesn't seem insane here, it seems a bit of a stretch and requires some serious leaps that I'm not sure are remotely proven though...

Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by XorNot on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @10:48AM (#25507412)
Testosterone being linked to aggression in humans is on shaky footings at best: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31785281/

The studies involved have a number of confounding factors, and notably the use of clinical manipulation of testosterone levels fails to find consistent effect.

Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by Damorian on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @11:33AM (#25507993)
The premise of this comment is absurd, and that meta-analysis is hilarious. "Testosterone level isn't closely linked to aggression, at least compared to being a man and a criminal." This is a case of common sense, and thousands of years of experience in the effects of castration on humans and animals, being more valuable than modern "science".
Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by jxramos on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @12:06PM (#25508482)
I thought I remember hearing one of the side effects of taking roids (steroids) is that the abuser loses self control more frequently and has tantrums and aggressive behavior and the like. Is that true?
Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by Damorian on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @12:24PM (#25508722)
At least according to several studies (though unsure if they're included in the above meta-analysis), the government's drug abuse pages, countless anecdotes, and the existence of the term "roid rage".
Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by XorNot on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @12:53PM (#25509072)
Castration is a lot more then just reducing testosterone levels.
Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by arsome on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @11:09AM (#25507681)
Yeah, I was wondering how much questionable pop-sci crap that was when I was writing it. Thanks, I'll have to read more into it.
Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by mekkkkkk on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @03:04PM (#25510535)
So why post it? You rationalize and give credence to goofball theories for fun?
Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by goldenManatee on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @11:18AM (#25507803)
You could also spin this argument to say that testosterone aggression causes people to fail to cooperate and societies would soon fall into chaos as everyone is out for themselves. These pseudo/pop scienciness is poor logic and unprofessional.
Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by dlkinney on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @07:02PM (#25512924)
> societies would soon fall into chaos as everyone is out for themselves.

I'm not sure how this accurate description of the entire history of human society is supposed to refute their hypothesis?

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Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by mkane848 on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @10:54AM (#25507504)
I love coming to HN to see simple phrases like "obviously true" being used so ridiculously.
Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by tomp on Wednesday December 23, 2020 @08:13AM (#25517255)
I love coming to HN to see factually true comments being flagged.
Re:Microplastics found in the placentas of human fetuses by dekhn on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @11:09AM (#25507680)
unfortunately, none of this is convincing enough for a scientific skeptic to say that there is actually a true human health impact from microplastics.