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Re:Creator of "Dirty Jobs" Mike Rowe testifies to Congress by wiredfool on Friday May 13, 2011 @01:09PM (#2545319)
I'll settle for "not another 20% cut this year".

(hey downvoters -- that's what's happening to my kid's school. It's a little personal)

Re:Creator of "Dirty Jobs" Mike Rowe testifies to Congress by Duff on Friday May 13, 2011 @09:45PM (#2546899)
My parent's school taxes were $1,800 in 2000. Today? $6,500.

From 2006 when I bought my home to today, my school taxes are up over 60%. This year, the school wants a 6% increase. The library district 25%. My pay has been frozen for 3 years.

Of course I live in New York, where the teacher's union essentially governs the place. During those timeframes the local schools have gotten worse by just about every measure. So the technique of paying 20% of the teachers $100k+ isn't working.

Re:Creator of "Dirty Jobs" Mike Rowe testifies to Congress by CWuestefeld on Friday May 13, 2011 @02:23PM (#2545594)
If that's what's happening in your area, you need to understand that yours is a one-in-a-million area. Where I live, and everywhere that I'm aware of, has monotonically increasing annual school budgets.

Or are you one of the people that counts a reduction of the proposed increase as a "cut", so even though you're getting more than last year, it's lower than what you asked for, so you consider it a cut?

Re:Creator of "Dirty Jobs" Mike Rowe testifies to Congress by wiredfool on Friday May 13, 2011 @02:34PM (#2545629)
Nope, those are real cuts. And really, it's at the very least, 1 in 50, since the budget at the state level in WA is being balanced by axing a lot of school funding. Federal funding is also way down this year.

Our school district has had to cut teachers for the last few years(I think 5 by now). They do it based on seniority, within each endorsement. Now, there are no teachers with less than 14 years of teaching experience in the district.

Re:Creator of "Dirty Jobs" Mike Rowe testifies to Congress by jbooth on Saturday May 14, 2011 @11:01AM (#2547752)
Healthcare costs are increasing at a rate of 15% a year, give or take. Historically, teacher contracts lean towards lower pay and an 80/20 split or so on healthcare so the district really eats a lot of that increase. Plus you have contracted cost of living raises.

So, a 2% increase in funding is typically a cut in "real" terms, even if inflation were under 2% (which it isn't), the grab bag of costs for municipalities has a lot of healthcare and very little consumer electronics, so inflation of school district costs of typically much higher than 2%.

So, basically, yeah, this is not unusual, not 1-in-a-million, go to your local school board meetings and you will likely find them struggling with budget cuts and layoffs.

Re:Creator of "Dirty Jobs" Mike Rowe testifies to Congress by nitrogen on Friday May 13, 2011 @08:51PM (#2546785)
In a monotonically increasing population, a monotonically increasing budget can still result in cuts in important metrics like per-pupil spending.
Re:Creator of "Dirty Jobs" Mike Rowe testifies to Congress by CWuestefeld on Saturday May 14, 2011 @10:55AM (#2547742)
In principle, yes. But that's not what's happening -- at least in my district, where I know the numbers. The per-student expense is also increasingly monotonically.
Re:Creator of "Dirty Jobs" Mike Rowe testifies to Congress by nitrogen on Saturday May 14, 2011 @06:02PM (#2548658)
If only that were the case everywhere. As far as I know from the teachers among my friends and family, in my state budgets are being cut, class sizes are increasing (there are more students than desks in many classes), teacher count is decreasing, the curriculum is being dumbed down, etc.
Re:Creator of "Dirty Jobs" Mike Rowe testifies to Congress by CWuestefeld on Saturday May 14, 2011 @06:48PM (#2548763)
class sizes are increasing

You seem to be perpetuating the idea that class size determines educational quality, and it ain't true. Indeed, it seems that many people take class size as a proxy for the quality. But it's false.

If you go looking for actual data on the relationship between size and educational achievement, you'll find that it's pretty inconclusive. Nobody has been able to show a strong correlation linking smaller classes with better learning. The one exception is a study showing that in the specific population of "at-risk kids" (meaning, those who are probably not getting educational support at home), having smaller classes does help. But for the mainstream, nobody has been able to prove that investing in more teachers to shrink the size of classes has any positive impact.

Continuing to harp on class size is part of the problem. It wastes money, preventing it from being employed in areas where it could do real good.

Re:Creator of "Dirty Jobs" Mike Rowe testifies to Congress by nitrogen on Saturday May 14, 2011 @10:43PM (#2549164)
I think you'd be hard pressed to demonstrate that students sitting on the floor or at a side table facing away from the teacher because there aren't enough desks leads to a quality education. It's nearly impossible for one teacher to control a class of 40+ teenagers, especially at-risk teenagers. My parents are both teachers, and they don't have time to provide individualized feedback to their students because their class sizes are increasing and their preparation time has been eliminated.
Re:Creator of "Dirty Jobs" Mike Rowe testifies to Congress by CWuestefeld on Sunday May 15, 2011 @10:46AM (#2550017)
students sitting on the floor or at a side table

That's not a class size or teacher problem, that's a furniture problem.

and their preparation time has been eliminated

I call BS. Does somebody come home with them and prevent them from preparing. As a manager and software developer, I spend a fair amount of my own time researching a prepping. Why should teachers not do the same?

Re:Creator of "Dirty Jobs" Mike Rowe testifies to Congress by nitrogen on Sunday May 15, 2011 @08:58PM (#2551248)
I respectfully believe you are grossly misinformed. Do you know any teachers personally? It varies across the country, but local teachers are paid half the salary of managers and software developers after receiving the same amount of education, yet they're expected to spend every waking hour dealing with students. Here are some concrete numbers for a junior high teacher:

7 classes per term, average of 40 students per class = 280 students total. There are 7 classes per day of 45 minutes each, with 5 minutes between classes and a 30 minute lunch. Teachers have to meet with students before and/or after school and monitor students between classes, so they're typically at school and busy for 8 hours or more per day with no breaks except maybe lunch. You try locking yourself in a building with 1000 or more shouting young teenagers for 8 hours straight without so much as a bathroom break.

If a teacher assigns a homework assignment every day and spends three hours per day (at home) grading assignments, then each student gets less than one minute of attention per assignment. Every student has his or her own points of confusion on the subject matter, which cannot be addressed in just one minute per day, and using class time to broadly address the questions of a few students slows down the students who don't have the same questions.

Notice I didn't include any time for designing lesson plans and presentations, writing grant proposals, creating assignments, or meeting with parents, let alone spending time with their families (which often enough just doesn't happen).

Regarding "furniture problems:" desks are a fixed size, they have to be spaced apart enough for students and teachers to reach them without tripping, and the classroom also needs presentation space at the front, a teacher's desk, and storage space. Fire codes specify maximum occupancy limits for rooms. There's only so much room available for desks.

Maybe you have to see the combined exasperation and exhaustion of an overworked and underpaid teacher to appreciate the level of decay present in our public school systems. This is an area where averages and statistics are misleading.

Re:Creator of "Dirty Jobs" Mike Rowe testifies to Congress by anamax on Friday May 13, 2011 @01:32PM (#2545414)
If that school was in CA, we've been increasing spending for decades without any benefit. Since increasing spending didn't help, any harm from cutting spending is sabotage or incompetence by the public school folk.

We're spending enough money, so if you're not getting what you want, you need to talk to the folks who are in charge of turning that money into decent education.

Re:Creator of "Dirty Jobs" Mike Rowe testifies to Congress by wiredfool on Friday May 13, 2011 @02:09PM (#2545545)
Nope, Washington State. I'm already volunteering in the classroom, working on getting the library sorted out, figuring out where we can help with enrichment classes next year (where enrichment == not reading/riting/rithmatic), and getting the chairs recovered because the cushions are worn out.

And they (the state legislature) is trying to cut all funding for our school secretary and remove any janitorial services. Because, apparently, they don't realize that the secretaries actually run the damn place.

I'm not sure where you are, but my experience is that most of the teachers are pretty good and care for the kids. We've got one that we wish we could ease out the door, but we've got a few that are just great. That is, if we get to keep them, because their hours will be cut and the district reshuffled.

Re:Creator of "Dirty Jobs" Mike Rowe testifies to Congress by anamax on Friday May 13, 2011 @06:49PM (#2546516)
> I'm not sure where you are, but my experience is that most of the teachers are pretty good and care for the kids.

I didn't suggest otherwise.

I said that in CA, like many other places in the US, we've been increasing spending on public education for decades and haven't gotten any benefit from that extra money.

It may well be that this money never made it to the classroom and that the classroom is being cut while "the black hole" is being protected.

My point is that enough money is going into "the system" as a whole. You're saying "enough money" isn't going where it's needed. That's a different problem, one that won't be solved by adding money.

Doesn't it bother you that your kids are being used as an excuse to line someone's pockets? (And no, I don't mean tax payers.)

Re:Creator of "Dirty Jobs" Mike Rowe testifies to Congress by wiredfool on Friday May 13, 2011 @07:28PM (#2546631)
So, Who's pockets are being lined?

It's not the food service, their contract is really crappy. I'd be happy to cut it, but there are enough kids on free lunch that it's really important. It's not the teachers, they keep getting cut. It's not the administrators, there aren't that many of them, and they've been cutting right along with the teachers. And the administrative load doesn't get smaller, since there are an ever multiplying number of federal compliance issues. It's not maintenance, as they don't have the resources they need to keep the aging infrastructure going. They could double their staff for a year and still not get through stuff. It's not transportation, they're getting hit by fuel costs. It's not the secretaries, they're getting hit too. The text books, meh, most of them are pretty old. Maybe it's technology, but that's a separate levy and a different pool of money.

We've got old buildings, one should have been closed years ago. That could save a teacher or two per year, but there's community pressure to keep it open.

Frankly, we spend less on education here per student per year than I would spend to send a kid to daycare for the same time. And they're expected to learn enough to compete in the modern world.

Re:Creator of "Dirty Jobs" Mike Rowe testifies to Congress by russell_h on Friday May 13, 2011 @09:52PM (#2546909)
You should take a look at what is being spent on teacher benefits. The school district in my hometown (Anchorage, Alaska) signed a contract whereby they're obligated to pay $1180/month for healthcare for each teacher.
Re:Creator of "Dirty Jobs" Mike Rowe testifies to Congress by jbooth on Saturday May 14, 2011 @01:32PM (#2548117)
Yeah, healthcare costs have been out of control for a decade. But that's not the teachers' fault. I don't know Alaska but that seems high, Anchorage should get a better deal with their provider.
Re:Creator of "Dirty Jobs" Mike Rowe testifies to Congress by anamax on Monday May 16, 2011 @12:59AM (#2551704)
> It's not the food service, their contract is really crappy.

Are you confusing the amount of money spent with the amount of benefit delivered?

I note that you're looking at the school level and you're guessing at spending.

Let's look at it from the other side. Suppose that you wanted to educate 25 kids. Would it cost more than $187k? I ask because $7,500 * 25 is $187,500.

Re:Creator of "Dirty Jobs" Mike Rowe testifies to Congress by chipsy on Saturday May 14, 2011 @01:15AM (#2547190)
Consultants.