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Re:More Americans are shoplifting food by nostromo on Thursday December 10, 2020 @07:03PM (#25380539)
Before the election the roles were reversed; it's not as black and white as you're letting on.

https://www.newsweek.com/pelosi-says-she-backs-smaller-stimu...

Re:More Americans are shoplifting food by jacobolus on Thursday December 10, 2020 @07:07PM (#25380583)
The House passed the HEROES Act in mid May. The GOP Senate sat on it (and did nothing else either) for the past 7 months.

Oh, except for a hearing pushing hydroxychloroquine in November, months after multiple studies had shown it ineffective, and a hearing promoting an anti-vaxer just last week. And I guess a bunch of hearings a few months ago wherein various GOP senators heaped ignorant abuse on public health officials.

If your favorite small business goes under, if your local hospital collapses, if your town goes bankrupt, etc., the institutional GOP and its donors are to blame.

We can all keep our fingers crossed for Georgia Senate runoffs, and for some real leadership come January.

Re:More Americans are shoplifting food by nostromo on Thursday December 10, 2020 @07:11PM (#25380617)
This is false. The Senate introduced the similarly stupidly named HEALS act. It takes two to tango.

It was politically driven: Democrats were afraid of giving Trump a win. Perhaps it was good politics, since it seems to have worked.

From Newsweek: "Despite a refusal for roughly the past six months to advance a smaller aid package that she deemed 'half a loaf,' House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is now willing to support a bipartisan stimulus bill worth less than half her previous demand thanks to, in part, Joe Biden's victory.

Re:More Americans are shoplifting food by dragonwriter on Thursday December 10, 2020 @07:25PM (#25380725)
> The Senate introduced the similarly stupidly named HEALS act. It takes two to tango.

It didn't pass it, unlike the House and HEROES. The Senate could have acted on the passed House bill. The House had no bill from the Senate to take up, since the Senate bill died in (Republican-led) committee.

The House is the only one on the dance floor.

And Nancy Pelosi may have opposed the Republican position in negotiations, but Nancy Pelosi has no control on what the Senate passes.

Re:More Americans are shoplifting food by nostromo on Thursday December 10, 2020 @07:43PM (#25380883)
Passing a bill you know is dead on arrival is pointless. It's virtue signaling, which is what the house did.

Suddenly, after the election, Pelosi is fine passing the same amount she opposed before the election as only half what was necessary.

This isn't some right-wing talking point -- Bernie Sanders has sad as much. This was a political game.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fact-check-did-berni...

Re:More Americans are shoplifting food by dragonwriter on Thursday December 10, 2020 @08:04PM (#25381041)
> Passing a bill you know is dead on arrival is pointless.

Actually, its often a significant part of the political process of building popular and, thereby, legislative support for a solution (which will ultimately often be a compromise from the DOA proposal.)

And, in a bicameral legislature, taking up a measure on an issue that is unacceptable in the form the other house passed it in, and amending it to the form that you think is better and sending it back (or to conference to resolve the issues) is a way of moving forward that is generally more effective than sending an alternative bill to die in committee and then ignoring the issue.

Re:More Americans are shoplifting food by nostromo on Thursday December 10, 2020 @09:04PM (#25381394)
I'm curious if you'd say the same about Republicans repealing Obamacare dozens of times, knowing the bills would go nowhere.

To me it looks like a bad-faith effort and a waste of everyone's time.

Re:More Americans are shoplifting food by jacobolus on Thursday December 10, 2020 @09:13PM (#25381445)
The GOP clearly did want to repeal the ACA, and ultimately would have (questionably, via budget reconciliation, requiring only a simple majority in the Senate) except for the last-minute trick of John McCain. McConnell expected him to vote for repeal, and so allowed other subserviant “moderate” GOP Senators Collins and Murkowski to take the token ‘no’ votes. McCain put in his vote against after there was no way for McConnell to get around it, and the GOP was furious.

After the successful repeal vote in the House in May 2017, the GOP threw big celebratory parties. You can see pictures of representatives smiling and laughing about the prospect of significant numbers of their own constituents losing coverage. They really relished the idea of taking away millions of people’s healthcare, and were profoundly disappointed when it didn’t work out.

As for the dozens of repeal votes while Obama was still in office: those were a quite effective partisan posturing effort. GOP-aligned media spent years on false propaganda about the effects of the ACA, trying to trick a public who largely didn’t understand the law or the healthcare system more generally. (To the point that e.g. in Kentucky people like “Kynect” while “Obamacare” is extremely unpopular, even though they are two names for the same thing.) GOP politicians were electorally very successful campaigning against the ACA while trying to sabotage it in every way they could. Much easier than even pretending to come up with a plan of their own.

Since the GOP Congress during Obama’s second term had no constructive agenda, essentially all of their time was spent on stuff like ACA repeal and Benghazi hearings. You are right that it was a bad-faith effort.

Re:More Americans are shoplifting food by dragonwriter on Friday December 11, 2020 @11:45AM (#25387723)
> I'm curious if you'd say the same about Republicans repealing Obamacare dozens of times, knowing the bills would go nowhere.

I would have said it the first time, at least.

The House didn't pass HEROES dozens of times.

Re:More Americans are shoplifting food by jacobolus on Thursday December 10, 2020 @07:44PM (#25380899)
If the GOP had been able to even get their own caucus to agree on a bill, they would have brought it to a vote. But they couldn’t.

Putting even the milquetoast HEALS act up for a vote would have put some of their members in a conflicted spot trying to both appear to care about the crisis while still appeasing hard-liner donors/supporters.

If the Senate had brought the HEROES Act as passed by the House to the floor, it might well have passed. But McConnell & friends didn’t want to see a relief bill passed, so they were satisfied to leave it off the agenda altogether.

Re:More Americans are shoplifting food by nostromo on Thursday December 10, 2020 @07:54PM (#25380966)
If you think HEALS was milquetoast at $1.1T, you must be pretty upset that Pelosi has now agreed to pass a bill at $0.9T... after months of demanding no less than $3.0T.

Gee, I wonder what happened in November for her to change her mind...

I'll stop responding now; it's pretty clear a number of folks on HN think that only one party can play political games and this has gotten trite.

Re:More Americans are shoplifting food by dragonwriter on Thursday December 10, 2020 @08:06PM (#25381055)
> If you think HEALS was milquetoast at $1.1T, you must be pretty upset that Pelosi has now agreed to pass a bill at $0.9T...

It was milquetoast, but not primarily because of the dollar amount (which is, though, inadequate as anything other than a partial stopgap and bridge), but because of substantive provisions.

Re:More Americans are shoplifting food by jacobolus on Thursday December 10, 2020 @08:01PM (#25381016)
> you must be pretty upset that Pelosi has now agreed [...]

Nancy Pelosi is surely also upset that we can’t do something more aggressive, but anything at all would be better than nothing (and we might still be stuck with nothing this year). We’re in an extraordinarily severe crisis, and people, small businesses, and state/local governments have been in urgent need of relief for months.

Even jaded political veterans expected some action from the Senate these past 7 months, under the circumstances. But what we have seen again and again in recent years is that even when we lower the bar down to the floor, they still manage to trip over it.

Re:More Americans are shoplifting food by dragonwriter on Thursday December 10, 2020 @10:07PM (#25381819)
> But what we have seen again and again in recent years is that even when we lower the bar down to the floor, they still manage to trip over it.

Correction: slither under it. They don't get over it, even by tripping.

Re:More Americans are shoplifting food by jacobolus on Thursday December 10, 2020 @07:13PM (#25380638)
The Senate never brought the HEALS Act to a vote. Sending a bill to committee to die is not good enough in the middle of the worst public health crisis in a century.

> takes two to tango

Indeed, without any action from the Senate, the House is stuck. Again, we should all be hoping for good results in the GA runoffs, or Congress will remain unable to address any of our serious challenges ahead.

The 2 years from 2009–2010 were pretty much the only substantially functional Congress in a generation, and would have accomplished a great deal more if they hadn’t also had to deal with a worldwide economic crisis.

Re:More Americans are shoplifting food by 1024core on Thursday December 10, 2020 @07:41PM (#25380874)
Since you seem to follow these things, do you know the difference between "introduced" and "passed" ?