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Re:Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation by zaroth on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @12:09PM (#25360843)
TFA is kind of a strange re-telling of an interesting story.

It came into the public view after an article from Inc. about Musk's famous email telling people to break with the chain of command. [1]

The HuffPo posted an article responding to Inc raising Balan's concerns [2];

> At the time Balan was working on the interiors design team at Tesla, where she identified and “tried … to solve two engineering issues,” she wrote recently on her blog — design flaws that needed to be addressed by the company. But when she tried to force management to fix the problems she was “bullied, humiliated, demoted and retaliated against in the most horrible way possible.” She considered leaving Tesla, but fellow engineers convinced her to stay. “I promised them I [would] get to Elon one way or the other,” she wrote, “even if I [had to go] to the Supreme Court.”

> Balan attempted to go through proper channels but soon found herself “in an even more threatening situation.” She began recording her meetings with fellow engineers when they discussed problems within the company. One recorded meeting lasted more than two hours. The recordings were “for Elon’s ears only,” she wrote in her blog.

>> Then I made my mistake: I wrote an email to Elon Musk, in reference to the infamous ‘Communication within Tesla’ email, to let him know I must meet with him in order to show him evidence of … things going on inside the company that he needed to be aware of.

The original blog post that HuffPo references is gone, but Balan has since posted a long blog article to try to tell her side of the story, which is certainly an interesting read of it's own right. [3]

[1] - https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/this-email-from-elon-musk-...

[2] - http://deleter.net/index.php/news/5541/Business/September-11...

[3] - http://cristinaibalanstory.com/teslas-longest-comment-on-an-...

Re:Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation by cinbun8 on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @03:19PM (#25364152)
Recording internal meetings to raise an issue isn't the best way to deal with the situation. I'm not surprised she was let go. The company probably saw this as dangerous behavior.
Re:Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation by buran77 on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @04:00PM (#25364880)
> she was let go

That's a very "euphemistic" way of putting it. Kind of like putting someone in a wheel chair could be described as "allowing them to tackle different challenges".

She was more than just let go, she was bullied, humiliated, demoted, threatened, retaliated against, and blackmailed among others. Evidence was tampered with, destroyed, or manufactured, along with quite the list of irregularities even judges observed.

There's nothing to justify that except an incredibly toxic company culture coming straight from a brilliant but extremely toxic leader. But people like him don't have to worry about any court. They can always buy their escape from a court of law with money, and buy their escape from the court of public opinion with charisma, PR, and their loyal following.

Re:Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation by ActorNightly on Thursday December 10, 2020 @02:39AM (#25370950)
>She was more than just let go, she was bullied, humiliated, demoted, threatened, retaliated against, and blackmailed among others. Evidence was tampered with, destroyed, or manufactured, along with quite the list of irregularities even judges observed.

Real quick: all of this information exists in your head because of online articles. You haven't seen the full proof of this happening. Be careful of making conclusions based on stories rather than evidence.

Re:Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation by buran77 on Thursday December 10, 2020 @03:40AM (#25371314)
> all of this information exists in your head because of online articles

And first person accounts from people I trust all confirming things along the same lines. On the other hand there are people defending Tesla or Musk because they genuinely haven't observed such issues but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. In practically all such cases it just means they never got on the wrong side of your company or CEO. A company should never treat you like garbage because you pissed them off. Or ever.

Imagine sexual harassment cases where the vast majority of men will genuinely say they haven't witnessed any foul play. But it's clearly not a sign the issue doesn't exist, just that some people never got to see it.

Re:Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation by mixmastamyk on Thursday December 10, 2020 @03:08AM (#25371114)
A happy and competent friend of mine went to work for them in the HR department at SpaceX, and left a month later, things were that brutal. Later I took a short contact at TBM in curiosity, it was rather hardcore as well. Long story short, I tend to believe it.
Re:Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation by ActorNightly on Thursday December 10, 2020 @03:27AM (#25371236)
Plenty of anecdotal examples to go around on both sides. Talk to anyone in FAANG, you will hear the same story.

Im just saying not to form hard conclusions on things unless you have pretty hard evidence available that presents a certain picture. Its too easy to fall into the trap of manufactured outrage.

Re:Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation by mixmastamyk on Thursday December 10, 2020 @03:36AM (#25371281)
No outrage. Co culture is definitely a thing however.
Re:Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation by mgh2 on Thursday December 10, 2020 @08:07PM (#25381062)
You can hear Balan's testimony/interview here: https://podtail.com/en/podcast/tslaq-podcast/episode-41-inte...

Whether she is telling the truth is for you to judge. The details and tone of voice sound genuine.

Re:Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation by josefresco on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @04:41PM (#25365574)
She only started recording meetings to collect evidence after being "bullied, humiliated, demoted and retaliated against in the most horrible way possible."

Seems ... justified.

Re:Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation by PeterisP on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @04:59PM (#25365861)
As far as I understand, doing that (recording meetings without notifying other participants) is a crime in California (https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/penal-code/pen-sect-632.html) and that justification does not make it permissible.

So if she admits that she did record these meetings without informing the other participants, then in this defamation case - a key part of which is about the claim in HuffingPost "She also illegally recorded internal conversations within Tesla without anyone’s permission, which is clearly criminal conduct" - she has a good chance to lose, as it's not defamation if it's true.

Re:Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation by gnicholas on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @05:19PM (#25366071)
Even if she broke the law when making the recordings, it's not clear that the recordings can't be used in court. [1]

This would be different if it were the police illegally procuring evidence, under the 'fruit of the poisonous tree' theory, but here it's just a private citizen. So while she could surely be punished for breaking laws related to recording people, that doesn't seem to foreclose the possibility that she could use the recordings in court to prove her case.

1: https://acitylawfirm.com/recorded-conversations/

Re:Former Tesla engineer sues for defamation by vkou on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @03:48PM (#25364689)
Companies record their employees all the time, in order to have evidence for when they raise an issue with them.

I understand why they feel threatened when this sort of thing is turned around on them, though.