It's not about freedom though, it's just about discipline. By making some short term sacrifices earlier in the year, life in the US could have been back to normal by now.

There's an element of personal risk assessment that is allowed in American culture that you're not acknowledging.

Some people jump out of planes, others prefer to stay grounded. Some start companies and risk their life savings, others prefer the safety of salaried position.

Even when in agreement on the correctness of the data findings, our risk assessments and individual actions will very wildly.

If it were just about people willing to risk dying, I would have no complaint. But since this is a contagious disease, it's actually about people willing to risk killing. That's what I find morally objectionable, and indicative of deep rot in our society.

What you see as “risking killing” we see as “living a free life”. Same problem as with CO2 and global warming, we will only ever respond to negotiation and persuasion, you will never be able to walk over us like we are doormats. It doesn’t matter if there is a way to rationalize how leaving us free might harm others, we generally do not trust your judgement and we will never entrust you with the power to enslave us.

Ban condomless sex, ban all alcohol, ban individual ownership of cars, ban individual ownership of guns.

If you participate in any of these activities you are intentionally being reckless with the lives of others.

None of those remotely compare. Covid just became the number one cause of death in the US, in terms of deaths per day. Unlike heart disease and cancer, this was entirely preventable. Compared to banning cars, the safety measures are minor inconveniences, and only need to last until vaccines are widely available, which will happen in a few months.

> Some start companies and risk their life savings, others prefer the safety of salaried position.

Yet Scandinavian countries have higher rates of entrepreneurship than the US does.

Nothing you have described here is unique to the US.

> It's not about freedom though, it's just about discipline.

They see being told to be disciplined as an infringement on their freedom, so it is about freedom to them.

Forced to do things, HUGE difference. They made it a political issue by enforcing it with government, I didn’t want this fight at all. In the absence of coercion, I would have no problem with measures that have even a slight chance of helping.

Ah, so they are toddlers then

Many countries made serious short term sacrifices earlier in the year but are not back to normal now - including places like Korea, who've been consistently (and correctly!) praised as models of good pandemic response.

Sure, but on the other hand many countries are. And Korea is still light years ahead of the US on controlling the virus.

It’s nice we can trust the government to give us our freedoms back when it’s over.

You're implying that all current quarantine measures and lockdowns worldwide are going to be permanent, even after they're no longer necessary?

I don't think so, but I guess we'll see.

I’m hoping for the best but here are things I worry about:

Immunity passport for travel (papers please)

Lockdowns as a go-to tool for any public health problem in the future. Bad flu season? New swine flu?

Permanent masks for the non vaccinated?

If you recall the original lockdowns were two weeks to flatten the curve. That has certainly grown.

But like I said. I worry a lot and I hope I’m wrong.

I can see some of those being in effect in the short term (not lockdowns for any and every public health problem - that would be suicidal) but assuming the COVID vaccine works out, I see no reason for any of them to be in effect in the long term.

But other people are dying. People don't get to choose their own level of risk: they're putting others are risk.

> the price of chains and slavery

Wow! Did he really liken his situation and lot in life as a free white man in colonial America, to actual slavery?

This is the first I’ve read of his entire speech.

Meanwhile, the actual black slaves were still physically chained, and denied their own freedoms.

Geez! The irony.

Yes, those are platitudes. Thank God people had more sense when polio and whooping cough were around.