How the U.S. Used Disinformation and the 'Jakarta Method' to Change the World

Re:How the U.S. Used Disinformation and the 'Jakarta Method'... by fishtacos on Wednesday November 25, 2020 @10:32AM (#25210252)

As I recall, the Taliban refused to hand over bin Laden and disavow Al Qaeda, which is why they were invaded. Al Qaeda openly bragged about attacking the Great Shaytan (Satan). I don't recall much opposition to that invasion.

The Iraq War was a definite mistake. The only argument that might stand, which is completely absurd if actually analyzed, is that of humanitarian intervention (against Saddam and his Ba'athist party). Even that humanitarian intervention angle, however, is very suspect due to the human cost of severe sanctions imposed on on Iraq after the first Gulf War, which the US maintained and pressured allies to do as well.

As we saw, once no WMDs were found, the US government switched to a different argument - the humanitarian one. And when that was shown to be BS due to thousands of civilians dying monthly at the hands of The Coalition of the Willing, they switched the argument to "bringing Democracy" to the country. It's the biggest fuck up and biggest moral stain on this country since I have been living here (mid 90s).

Ultimately, the worldwide opposition was palpable. The WMD inspectors from the UN were kicked out by the US. Scott Ritter, the head of the UN group, decried the invasion and did in fact predict the US would achieve nothing and leave "with their tail between their legs". It should have never happened.

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Re:How the U.S. Used Disinformation and the 'Jakarta Method'... by u801e on Wednesday November 25, 2020 @11:22AM (#25210852)

> As I recall, the Taliban refused to hand over bin Laden and disavow Al Qaeda, which is why they were invaded.

My recollection was that the Taliban asked for evidence of Osama Bin Laden's involvement in the September 11th attacks. The US didn't provide it and subsequently invaded.

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Re:How the U.S. Used Disinformation and the 'Jakarta Method'... by fishtacos on Wednesday November 25, 2020 @12:03PM (#25211402)

While that may be true (don't recall specifically), the Taliban were not in a position to be asking for anything, since they were essentially a group of mujahideen who won over other rival groups and took violent control of the country post the Afghan-Soviet conflict, and immediately instituted the most severe form of Wahhabism and Sharia law of that time period. A few steps away from ISIS.

Not arguing you, to be clear. I appreciate the clarification.

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Re:How the U.S. Used Disinformation and the 'Jakarta Method'... by u801e on Wednesday November 25, 2020 @12:07PM (#25211452)

> Taliban were not in a position to be asking for anything

If they weren't, then the US military wouldn't still be in Afghanistan dealing with them nearly 20 years later.

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Re:How the U.S. Used Disinformation and the 'Jakarta Method'... by fishtacos on Wednesday November 25, 2020 @12:17PM (#25211586)

Entrenchment, local support against invaders/foreigners (despite opposition to the Taliban), further radicalization and funding that occurs during a conflict by proxy parties, is why the US is still there - the Taliban were never in a position to be asking for anything.

EDIT: I'm not defending the US and any coalition troops staying there. I'm interpreting the current situation. Best thing we can do at this point (and 10 years ago) is to cut our losses and GTFO.

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