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Re:Mozilla DNS over HTTPS (DoH) and Trusted Recursive Resolv... by tremon on Thursday November 19, 2020 @11:26AM (#25151069)
If you run a custom DNS, don't have DoH running

How do I enforce that? How can I ensure that no javascript payload or "smart" device on my network or app on my phone is connecting to a DoH server, when they're on my home network?

Re:Mozilla DNS over HTTPS (DoH) and Trusted Recursive Resolv... by EvanAnderson on Thursday November 19, 2020 @11:49AM (#25151360)
How do I enforce that?

You don't. When the device manufacturers start being really evil and using certificate pinning for their DoH servers you simply don't buy those devices.

When the only devices available in the market for a given function end up being "evil" you either implement the functionality yourself or you just live without.

It's that or legislation (which will just become an arms race of manufacturers trying to work around the legislation).

I do without. No "smart" devices for me or my family. It's working so far. I about the eventual future when no major appliances, vehicles, etc, will be available without "smart" features implemented in an owner-hostile manner.

Re:Mozilla DNS over HTTPS (DoH) and Trusted Recursive Resolv... by danShumway on Thursday November 19, 2020 @04:03PM (#25154333)
How do you currently deal with pinned certificates on those devices? What makes you think that they're currently respecting your network? A Google Chromecast will already ignore all of your network-wide DNS settings.

This removes a couple of avenues of attack you might have used to rein in some of those devices (but probably weren't doing), but it's just a symptom of the fact that using DNS for device control was always a really hacky, kind of awful solution to the problem of having rogue devices on the network.

Re:Mozilla DNS over HTTPS (DoH) and Trusted Recursive Resolv... by TheRealPomax on Thursday November 19, 2020 @11:35AM (#25151178)
Did you suddenly forget how to care about privacy and security before you buy your devices? No. Vote with your dollars, don't buy things that don't do what you need them to. If some IoT device only uses DoH, you already know that before you buy it: don't buy it. If an app only works with DoH, you already discovered that because you're someone who reads and comments on HN, and so you're guaranteed to check some app reviews before you buy into to: don't use it. No one's forcing you into this beyond your control.

Plus, right now we're talking about a browser adding DoH, and not some shit Google or Apple browser that makes the decision for you and it's final, but a fully configurable, user controlled, poweruser enabling browser that lets you modify its core behaviour without even having to recompile it yourself. You just open a tab and flip a boolean.

There is no problem.