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Re:What Gödel Discovered by arc0 on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @08:24AM (#25136450)
Gödel's proof does not apply to any single axiomatic system, it applies to any computable set of axioms that can talk about numbers, quantifiers, addition and multiplication. This isn't arbitrary, it's a set of properties required for just about any interesting mathematics to take place.

The formulae are accepted because Gödel gives us a mapping, he proves that we can convert any formula into a number without losing information.

Re:What Gödel Discovered by drran on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @03:36PM (#25142127)
Ok, we converted formulas into unique numbers. Now, we can range these numbers, then we can remap these numbers back to natural numbers: 1 is first formula, 2 is second formula, and so on. We can produce these numbers with just «next» operator.

However, some formulas are incorrect, so we filter out them and then remap remaining functions again: 1 is first correct formula, 2 is second correct formula, and so on. Now, we can produce correct formulas with just «next» operator.

However, some formulas can contradict our system of rules, so we filter out them, and remap remaining functions again: 1 is the first correct formula which doesn't contradict the system of rules, and so on. Let's call them "Lisivka's numbers".

So, Godel's numbers can contradict axiomatic system, while Lisivka's numbers cannot.

Do you see the problem?

Re:What Gödel Discovered by stopachka on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @05:54PM (#25143705)
The point of Godel’s idea, is that he proved “ Lisivka's numbers", has a formula that can’t be proven.

Try going through the essay, and point out where the “incorrect” numbers were formed. You may be surprised to find that all statements were “correct” in the definition you are thinking of. The mathematical term is “primitive recursive” and “well-formed”

Re:What Gödel Discovered by drran on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @07:01PM (#25144412)
You missed the point. Any "bad" Godel's number can be interpreted as "good" Lisivka's number. We have ambiguity here, because a number can refer to any formula in infinite number of sets.

> We can go further. We can even construct PM-Lisp formulas in PM-Lisp!

No, we cannot.

Re:What Gödel Discovered by stopachka on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @07:07PM (#25144479)
When you say "You missed the point.", and "No, we cannot" -- your words come off as though you are supremely confident, and a bit condescending. This makes me not want to engage deeper with you.

To see how it feels:

No, drran, you have missed the point. Read it again, maybe you'll get it.

Re:What Gödel Discovered by drran on Thursday November 19, 2020 @07:13AM (#25148728)
4667698044567788679899973453457778678980909855464564564578787890665467786780909875744564756867978980890785745635646767586445454536665474747746767457575890112345678999077554344567787923424234234234246566797899707980980983453453454353453453453534534534534

This number is equivalent to the proof that I'm right. Godel was genius!