I would like to believe, that say, after the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra was revealed, CIA had found its moral compass, and are not involved in such things anymore. But I really doubt that's the case.
Re:The Mysterious Affair At Olivetti attempts to find a Cold...
by Scheherazade on Thursday November 19, 2020 @01:10PM
(#25152374)
Allen Dulles and John Foster Dulles certainly didn't play nice. The list of things that they messed up, and too big to hide from being on the record, is quite illuminating (Vietname, Cuba, China/Taiwan/Tibet, Korea, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, most of south america really, and so on) which suggests far more things occurred in the shadows too. A couple of Italians is small peanuts in comparison, especially since by 1960 the possibility of Italy flipping to the Soviets was gone. The secret agreement to base nukes on Italian airbases would have been signed around this timeframe, so Rome wouldn't have protested, really quite clever.
Also the organizational and logistical possibility was very real too considering that enormous sums of money were diverted off the books for funding secret projects in that period. In fact, even up to early 1945 nobody in Congress knew about the real purpose of the manhattan project (which was consuming a sizeable chunk of the national budget!). Not even Harry Truman, who was Chairman of the Senate Subcommittee on War Mobilization at the time (who was given the run around by Stimson).
Though to be fair it was not just Washington, all the powers invested in covert, off-the-record, stuff to some degree. French/Israeli/Indian/Pakistani/South African/etc. nuclear bomb development being the most well known examples as again they are too big to fully cover up.
Re:The Mysterious Affair At Olivetti attempts to find a Cold...
by simonebrunozzi on Thursday November 19, 2020 @10:18AM
(#25150351)
Despite the book doesn't seem to be particularly great, the topic of Olivetti is a really interesting one.
I am of the opinion that:
1) There's a high chance that the CIA had something to do either with the fate of the company, or the death of Adriano Olivetti himself (on a train, supposedly a heart attack). But I don't necessarily buy the "evil" version here. In fact, Adriano Olivetti had a relationship with CIA officials. [0]
2) Olivetti could have been the Italian Intel or HP or IBM, if Adriano didn't die. In fact, they opened a research center in Silicon Valley, and were poised to lead the desktop computer revolution that happened starting from the late 70s and early 80s.
I can't find the article I had in mind, but this one at least gives you some perspectives on how great, and ahead of its time, the Olivetti company was. [1]
3) There should be a much, much better book to investigate and tell the story.
4) If you think the Google campus was innovative... Adriano Olivetti created a better version of it in the late 40s and 50s in Italy. He was also a prolific writer, his "La città dell'uomo" (the human city) was at the center of his views on how industry, society, work, life could be interpreted [2].
5) Finally, there are several people from the Olivetti labs that ended up doing great things at other silicon valley companies.
Again, I can't find much (or perhaps I am not spending enough time doing it), but this could be a good start [3].
Re:The Mysterious Affair At Olivetti attempts to find a Cold...
by Zigurd on Thursday November 19, 2020 @11:29AM
(#25151103)
It is one of the few audiobooks I completely gave up on. I'm usually pretty tolerant about how well Cold War stories are told. I was working at a UN econometrics institute during the Solidarity protests. The place seemed chock full of spies and apparatchiks in sinecure positions. I have a soft spot for stories of that time.
I would like to believe, that say, after the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra was revealed, CIA had found its moral compass, and are not involved in such things anymore. But I really doubt that's the case.
Also the organizational and logistical possibility was very real too considering that enormous sums of money were diverted off the books for funding secret projects in that period. In fact, even up to early 1945 nobody in Congress knew about the real purpose of the manhattan project (which was consuming a sizeable chunk of the national budget!). Not even Harry Truman, who was Chairman of the Senate Subcommittee on War Mobilization at the time (who was given the run around by Stimson).
Though to be fair it was not just Washington, all the powers invested in covert, off-the-record, stuff to some degree. French/Israeli/Indian/Pakistani/South African/etc. nuclear bomb development being the most well known examples as again they are too big to fully cover up.
That sounds like a quote from alternative universe xD
I am of the opinion that:
1) There's a high chance that the CIA had something to do either with the fate of the company, or the death of Adriano Olivetti himself (on a train, supposedly a heart attack). But I don't necessarily buy the "evil" version here. In fact, Adriano Olivetti had a relationship with CIA officials. [0]
2) Olivetti could have been the Italian Intel or HP or IBM, if Adriano didn't die. In fact, they opened a research center in Silicon Valley, and were poised to lead the desktop computer revolution that happened starting from the late 70s and early 80s.
I can't find the article I had in mind, but this one at least gives you some perspectives on how great, and ahead of its time, the Olivetti company was. [1]
3) There should be a much, much better book to investigate and tell the story.
4) If you think the Google campus was innovative... Adriano Olivetti created a better version of it in the late 40s and 50s in Italy. He was also a prolific writer, his "La città dell'uomo" (the human city) was at the center of his views on how industry, society, work, life could be interpreted [2].
5) Finally, there are several people from the Olivetti labs that ended up doing great things at other silicon valley companies.
Again, I can't find much (or perhaps I am not spending enough time doing it), but this could be a good start [3].
[0]: https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/document/cia-rdp80-0...
[1]: https://qz.com/455328/this-italian-company-pioneered-innovat...
[2]: https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/apr/13/story-cities-...
[3]: https://mindthebridge.com/giacomo-marini-mindthechat/
Edit: (and thanks to user @Rochus) I am talking about people like Federico Faggin. Just look at his wikipedia page. Just impressive. [4]
[4]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federico_Faggin