Anecdotally, I've started seeing a lot more people wearing masks in supermarkets in WA after the governor issued a decree mandating them. When it was a recommendation, too many were automatically dismissing it for political reasons.

Out of curiosity, when was this and did not he supermarkets change policy on mask usage?

The policy was to require masks even before the mandate, but it wasn't really enforced, from what I've seen. The mandate went into effect sometime this summer.

(Keep in mind that this is a purple rural-turned-suburban district in WA. I didn't notice much difference in more urban areas.)

If I may ask: Thurston county?

North Bend. It's in King County, but at the easternmost edge of it. The legislative district actually spans the Cascades, so it's generally bluer to the west and redder to the east of here; we're in the middle.

We have run into BIG problems because people don't come close to following recommendations if they're left to their own devices. Sometimes you need a little more of a 'nudge' to get people to do the right thing.

“Despite North Dakota’s remarkable efforts at testing and case finding, these measures are no longer enough, and we are now in desperate need of implementing stronger measures in order to save lives and preserve our health care workforce and capacity,” said Dr. Paul Carson, an infectious disease specialist, professor of public health at North Dakota State University and physician advisor to the state’s COVID-19 response. “We have a growing body of good evidence that masking, especially when paired with other mitigation strategies, can substantially reduce the spread of the virus. I am very grateful that the Governor has taken the bold measure to implement an enforced mask mandate across the state, and am hopeful this will help to flatten the curve.”

https://www.governor.nd.gov/news/burgum-announces-new-requir...

More and more conservative states are finding that if they don't make masks mandatory all that winds up happening is the ICUs fill up, healthcare workers start getting sick, and things get real scary real quick (e.g. Arizona changed their tune about masks REAL quick when Phoenix ICUs started hitting 90% capacity).

I hate the government telling me what to do as much as the next person, but there are a lot of people out there who just don't grasp the concept of 'just because you can, doesn't mean you should.'

I don't care if you kiss your wife or don't kiss your wife. I do care if you stand 6 inches behind me coughing with no mask in the grocery store, and if you do that I would very much like you to be thrown out by force if necessary, because you're putting my life and my family's life at risk because of nothing other than some bizarre paranoia about how wearing masks makes you less of a man (not that I think you personally would do that, but I had that happen to me pre-mask-regulations during COVID in an Arizona grocery store and it really pissed me off.

A sick-looking guy with no mask on hacking up a lung in front of the deli counter at Safeway isn't freedom, it's stupidity. Stuff like that just happens in the absence of mandatory restrictions, and it puts everyone's life at risk for zero reason. I wish my fellow Americans weren't that stupid, but unfortunately enough of them are.

Weirdly, US mask wearing compliance has greatly exceeded that of the UK and is not that dissimilar to EU countries on average.

As for legal requirements. My guess is that if Trump had said - “I’m not going to let those democrats order you around. I’m wearing a mask because Americans know what’s right without needing to be told what to do.” There might be even more compliance.

Unfortunately mask compliance on this side of the pond has largely been a result of government intervention:

"As rapidly growing case counts strained health care systems across the South and Southwest this summer, more Republican leaders ordered citizens to wear masks to help slow the spread of the virus. In July, President Donald Trump wore a mask in public for the first time and urged Americans to do the same, marking a change in tone from earlier in the pandemic."

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/08/27/more-americ...

"A tidal wave of new mask requirements has been issued in the last few days, amid surging cases in many regions, including more than 75,000 new coronavirus cases across the country on Thursday, the most in a single day. Face coverings will be required at stores like Walmart, Target and CVS, and in a growing number of Republican-led states where governors once resisted such mandates."

"More than half the states have issued statewide mask requirements, including Arkansas, where Gov. Asa Hutchinson, a Republican, announced a face covering requirement on Thursday, after previously taking a more hands-off approach. Gov. Jared Polis of Colorado, a Democrat, also issued a mask order on Thursday, after questioning whether such a mandate would be enforceable."

"But there remains firm resistance in many circles, including from some Republican leaders who view mask requirements as a threat to personal liberty."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/16/us/coronavirus-masks.html

Unfortunately (I've been using that word a lot lately), Trump endorsing masks would have conflicted with his somewhat perplexing political strategy of gaslighting his base into thinking the virus wasn't anything to take seriously.

'Speaking on Capitol Hill on 10 March, Mr Trump said: "Just stay calm. It will go away."'

'Nine days later, after the White House declared the pandemic a national emergency, the president told Woodward: "I wanted to always play it down. I still like playing it down, because I don't want to create a panic."'

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54172311

And, of course, then he got it, and even with the best care in the country, and cutting edge therapies not available to normal people still had a hell of a time.

If he had done a photo-op standing in front of a pallet of N95s in NYC during the worst of it there, and pumped federal cash into making sure the country was up to its ass in PPE, this election would have been a cakewalk for him. He would have looked heroic and decisive. But, he didn't. For some reason, he took a different approach. I'm not really sure why, but 2020 is just a year of head-scratchers.

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with the parent post or my post above.

From my perspective, it seems like you come to the same conclusion.

While you say that "Unfortunately mask compliance on this side of the pond has largely been a result of government intervention" it is also clear that non-compliance is largely a result of government intervention, eg Trump and others failing to encourage mask use, and both side weaponizing the issue.

Your point is that if the government did not make any mask mandates, people would wear masks because of reverse psychology. So we need to get rid of mask mandates so that people will wear masks?

My point is that they tried it without a mandate already. North Dakota, Arizona, Iowa, Arkansas, etc. States without mask mandates saw cases spike, ICUs filled up, health care workers started getting sick, things got scary, and they were forced to implement mask mandates before reaching the point where there was zero available healthcare capacity for non-COVID issues.

Why have so many states that initially refused mask mandates had to turn 180 degrees and mandate masks? Because nobody was wearing masks without the mandate.

Trump failing to encourage mask use is an active decision not to intervene. You seem to be saying that by failing to invade Canada, we have intervened in Canada.

Or maybe I missed your point? That's definitely a possibility.

“Trump failing to encourage mask use is an active decision not to intervene.”

I think the disagreement rests on this point. From my point of view Trump has done vastly more than not intervene.

The President of the United States has gactively discouraged* mask usage.

That is why states have decided they need mandates.

You know, that's a really good point. I was defining intervention as making policy, but that may be a little outdated.

That's fair. That's probably a cultural difference between my country and yours.

I think you’ve just conceded the point you’ve been arguing against.