Completely agree with all your points here, even though I bought a 2020 pro (big sur is badass).

However, every time I read comments like that I feel like someone from the System76 is monitoring HN and posting evil marketing comments :D

PS. Love System76, going to order it LOL

People always recommend System76 in these threads but they're just rebranding Clevo systems. You might consider cutting out their "value add" and just getting the unbranded NV41MB for ~$100 less (depending on how you configure it).

https://www.avadirect.com/Clevo-NV41MB-D-14-Core-i5-NVIDIA-G...

I understand they're working on producing their own laptops as well, but I bought a System76 Thelio desktop at the beginning of the pandemic ("guess I'm not going anywhere for a while") and it's been fantastic.

I also feel that calling it "just a rebrand" does a disservice to the engineering System76 has done short of building their own hardware. Pop OS is a real usability achievement, the tiling desktop is great, and controlling both hardware and software is how you get something as user-friendly as a mac. I especially loved this review of the Oryx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aJ9U5t9oD4

While getting it directly might be cheaper, it is necessary to realize what those $100 extra value add is getting you: someone did their work and did the integration necessary to run Linux seamlessly.

You see HN threads full of complaining that there is always something to "fix" when running Linux. Your $100 goes towards not having to "fix" anything and working correctly OOTB.

pop_os is far from immune to this frankly.

It is surely not perfect (I wouldn't know, I use different distro).

But when people won't reward Linux integration, and reward Windows or Apple instead, there won't be any Linux integration and they will be getting Windows or Apple.

Offer a competitive price for a competitive product and support and people will pay for it. That's currently not possible with Linux for personal computing.

I don't have any ill will towards Linux, I use it myself at work and home. But I'm not buying my parents a System76 machine for Christmas because I know the OS is unusable for them while the machines themselves are not well priced or spec'd for their needs.

The closest thing I could buy is a Chromebook, which fits the needs of a kid in school certainly but is a bit weak and ill supported for what they use a computer for.

So if I do get either of them a new computer, it's going to be a Windows or Mac. Linux options for them don't exist. There's no way to "reward linux integration" even if I wanted to, it's just not realistic.

There are Linux offers from Dell and Lenovo; I heard something that HP could offer it as well.

When you are paying for Windows, you will be getting Windows. It is up to you. However, don't complain that you have to "fix" something when installing Linux on a Windows machine; after all, you got Windows machine and that's what your vendor prepared for you.

I was hoping to nerd snipe someone into giving me a better recommendation! Thank you :D

For Linux I would go with a Dell XPS 13 or Thinkpad X1 Carbon.

You need to be mindful of the quality with both brands.

Dell XPS models are notorious for coil wine and display issues. Unlike the X1, the XPS models don't have USB-A ports.

The Lenovo X1 has the display panel lottery and fit-and-finish problems such as misaligned keys, seam gaps, and case material differences, which is probably attributed to multiple suppliers. Depending on the type of display panel, there could be four different suppliers (best to worst): Innolux, LG-Philips, AU Optronics, and BOE.

Buddy I know went with Dell + Ubuntu. I watched him struggle with driver issues that give me hesitation to the idea of _not_ buying an all in one packaged system.

you need to get Dev Edition for XPS, otherwise you are going to struggle

PS. Ex-Dell XPS user

Quick word though, if you have issues with dell software on Linux you're SOL even if you pay for software support. Dell does not offer any paid support for Linux machines they sell or software they distribute on them.

Mind explaining why you're an ex-dell xps user?

Sure,

Dell XPS is an outstanding laptop, I've not found yet better laptop if you don't like macs

However, Dell is not going to be my next machine because:

- dev edition is hard to get (at least for me) and regular version does not work well with Linux (finger scanner requires to install OS patches, WiFi is dropping ocasionally , I had some crappy WiFi adapter installed in 2017/18, scaling is a big issue etc)

- mine XPS had a weirdly placed camera (bottom left corner)

- again, mine model did not have 4k display (comparing to retina I had back then)

- 13" is too small and 15" is too heavy, I would like something in the middle which might seem weird for you

- there is no finger scanner for dev edition (Yubico is here to help)

As you see those are very minor and subjective issues. Dell is a favourite machine of a friend of mine for years already, however I find Apple winning premium laptops battle in my eyes.

Mac is offering one thing that I can't find elsewhere: an amazing TouchPad.

I'm sure I could break away, but, right now, I'm hugely dependent on my touchpad for my workflows.

* For some reason, windows cannot get scrolling working correctly on touchpads. * OSX gestures work incredibly well. I have them tied into many different actions.

There is a fellow from here working on getting it right in Linux. Apparently they’ve looked into it and it seemed like the obstacles aren’t insurmountable, but the developers want to be paid.

https://bill.harding.blog/2020/04/26/linux-touchpad-like-a-m...

As they should be, one thing I want to knock System76 for here is for not doing more around making the Linux Desktop experience more seamless. Still requires a ton of fiddling.

It would be worth paying for, and honestly, I think it should be Bourne by the manufacturers of linux machines, not end users.

> one thing I want to knock System76 for here is for not doing more around making the Linux Desktop experience more seamless

They are doing this?

> It would be worth paying for, and honestly, I think it should be Bourne by the manufacturers of linux machines, not end users.

if you want them to do more, buy their computer or support Pop_OS! with patreon-like donations. They ask for $1/month.

https://pop.system76.com/

Personally I find that after a while I can adjust to the scrolling but what I can't get over is the lack of back/forward navigation gesture.