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Re:Your Computer Isn't Yours by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Friday November 13, 2020 @07:35AM (#25081500)
> Non-tech people don't want (or don't know how) to "setup". The most user-friendly setup won't ever beat "no setup" (e.g., macOS).

I don't like this line of thinking because it is condescending. More importantly though, there are plenty of competent technical users like myself that would love to be using an open operating system but are fed up with dealing with the systemic problems Linux Desktop has that its developers and community keep papering over and pretending don't exist.

Re:Your Computer Isn't Yours by II2II on Friday November 13, 2020 @10:08AM (#25083007)
I'm going to let you in on a secret: most of the people who advocate a particular operating system are pretending that systematic problems don't exist.

Strictly speaking, Windows is a usability nightmare. Most people don't notice simply because most people learn and use a tiny subset what is there. Beyond that, there is an entire industry to support Windows (which is part of the reason why people like it). Apple isn't much better. They tend to paper things over by simply dropping support. An example was brought up by another commenter when they mentioned that some ix programs use raster fonts. Strictly speaking that can happen under Linux yet not macOS since Apple dropped support for legacy software while some ix software is decades old. Linux will have its own issues, but I'm not the best judge of that since it is my operating system of choice.

At the end of the day, any operating system will be a compromise of some form or another. Which you choose will depend upon what your wants and needs are.

Re:Your Computer Isn't Yours by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Friday November 13, 2020 @10:17AM (#25083105)
I don't disagree, Windows especially has been getting a lot worse as it embraces modern development and the users-are-cattle mindset that comes with it.

My problem isn't so much that there are tradeoffs, or even that those tradeoffs are not ones I want to make, it's that there are people out there who seem to insist that Linux Desktop is the one and only proper choice and everyone who doesn't choose it is either stupid or misinformed. If Linux Desktop people were more willing to listen to why people don't use it and take criticism to heart instead of as some kind of personal attack, it might have evolved into something more people would actually want to use.

Re:Your Computer Isn't Yours by II2II on Friday November 13, 2020 @10:50AM (#25083463)
> My problem isn't so much that there are tradeoffs, or even that those tradeoffs are not ones I want to make,

That's fine, and I agree that advocates sometimes detract from progress.

Re:Your Computer Isn't Yours by majewsky on Friday November 13, 2020 @07:45AM (#25081578)
It's not condescending, it's realistic. It's how I (as a tech person) approach most non-tech things in life. I rent because I don't want to deal with maintaining a house. I use public transit because I don't want to deal with maintaining a car. And so on.

I may be an extreme example in some ways, but everyone only has so many fucks to give, and most people have legitimately exhausted their budget by the time they get to tech policy.

Re:Your Computer Isn't Yours by atonalfreerider on Friday November 13, 2020 @09:50AM (#25082750)
Extending your analogy, I always feel like when I set up my Linux workflow (something I attempt and abandon at least once a year) it feels like someone dropped a car off in my driveway with the engine and transmission on the sidewalk and no instructions on how to assemble. Installing the "engine" always requires hours of browsing through comment threads written by random people on the internet that are years old.

This year is different though! I'm going to make it work. Also looking at Pinephone for my mobile.