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Re:Three Months of Go from a Haskeller’s perspective (2016) by eru on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @04:36AM (#24987612)
> And Go let's you communicate by copying. That's what a Channel is. Pass a struct and that is copied. Pass a pointer and the pointer is copied. The thing it points to isn't copied for glaringly obvious reasons.

I'm not sure what those glaringly obvious reasons are. In Erlang, you just send a copy of the whole struct. Not some kind of references or pointers.

See eg https://play.golang.org/p/P3qUtFenp2q

But as I am saying, if you want to send pointers (or references) over a channel, they should support marking things as immutable.

> And what would you suggest is a good alternative for returning multiple parameters. Currently this basically forces you to handle any possible errors and results in software you can very easily reason about.

Go doesn't force you to handle errors at all. The compiler will happily mix up the branches of your `if` that checks for errors, or let you get away without checking anything at all.

My suggestion would be eg algebraic data types. Especially sum-types. Or in more C inspired terms: tagged unions plus pattern matching. Or 'an enum with parameters'.

> Not sure what you mean about human reviewers needing to check errors.

In a language without any checking at all like JavaScript, human authors and reviewers have to make sure that you don't accidentally eg add a string to an int. Or otherwise, have to make sure that at least you have enough test coverage.

In Go, the compiler can yell at you when you are trying to add an int to a string.

In OCaml or Haskel or Rust (or any language with algebraic data types), the compiler can make sure that you check your errors. So in eg Haskell syntax that looks like this:

    case someFunctionThatMightGoWrong(someParameter) of
        Error errorDetails -> handleErrors(errorDetails)
        Success someValue -> doSomethingSensible(someValue)
Crucially, `someValue` is only in scope in the branch where we match the right pattern. So you can't accidentally go on computing with that variable in the wrong branch.

Does this make sense? If not, I can try to explain in some other way.

Re:Three Months of Go from a Haskeller’s perspective (2016) by bankisan on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @08:44AM (#24988937)
Regarding the example in your first point, you are still sending a reference `m` of the map. If you wanted to send an immutable type, you could declare the channel to only accept struct values (and not pointers to structs) and you'll get your desired behavior.

Here's a playground for reference:

https://play.golang.org/p/U2tYZVTtUf-

Re:Three Months of Go from a Haskeller’s perspective (2016) by simiones on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @09:54AM (#24989553)
Given that there is no way to make a non-pointer map in Go, there is no workaround for the example they gave.

The broader point is that there is no way in Go to ensure that data passed over a channel will not be modified concurrently without modifying the type of the data specifically for the channel use case.

A deep_copy() primitive would fix this.

Re:Three Months of Go from a Haskeller’s perspective (2016) by bankisan on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @10:29AM (#24989854)
Right, but they mentioned sending immutable structs which is why I gave the struct example. But you're right that every declared map is a just a pointer.

With respect to your second point, I see what you mean but I still don't think that's a negative of Go. You can pass in copied values without having to have a deep_copy() primitive (loop map values and copy to new map, dereferencing a pointer, etc.). Like other parts of Go, if you want to make your data immutable there is no syntactic sugar. You have to explicitly write it out.

Re:Three Months of Go from a Haskeller’s perspective (2016) by simiones on Monday November 09, 2020 @08:56AM (#25034824)
> With respect to your second point, I see what you mean but I still don't think that's a negative of Go.

It is a negative of Go, because Go pushes you into the pit of failure by its design: it is much, much harder to do the right thing (send deep copies of objects over channels) than it is to do the wrong things (send pointers or shallow copies over channels).

Re:Three Months of Go from a Haskeller’s perspective (2016) by eru on Thursday November 05, 2020 @03:11AM (#24996488)
You'd have to roll your own deep_copy by hand (or code generation) for every single data type.
Re:Three Months of Go from a Haskeller’s perspective (2016) by eru on Thursday November 05, 2020 @03:11AM (#24996481)
Yes, either a deep_copy() or a way to declare things immutable. (Or both.)