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Re:Lithuania is paying people to trade in polluting cars for... by TulliusCicero on Monday November 02, 2020 @08:06AM (#24967725)
> Escooter/ebike is rarely a replacement for a car.

True for most of the US, but that's by design.

Our family of three gave up having a car when we moved from California to Munich, here our electric cargo bike is our 'car'. Works great. Plenty of other families without cars as well.

That's not to say that a car wouldn't be very useful or more convenient for certain kinds of trips, of course (e.g. Ikea). But it doesn't feel like a necessity here the way it almost always felt like one in the US. And that's for a simple reason: Munich actually takes different forms of transport seriously, including street design, allocated land, and $$$ (well, €€€). I could go on and on about the differences.

In the US, mandatory very low density zoning, as well as local transportation systems designed to be car-first (or car-only), are the reason driving is usually a basic necessity. But if you start upzoning and pouring serious resources into other modes of transport, they can work very well too.

edit: I guess I should say, thinking of it as "a replacement for a car" is a very American mode of thinking, because it assumes that the car is a necessity in the first place. The aim should be a system where a car is a nice-to-have, not an integral component of every single person's life, a system where an ebike doesn't need to be a "replacement for a car", because you don't strictly need a car to live your life.

Re:Lithuania is paying people to trade in polluting cars for... by skocznymroczny on Monday November 02, 2020 @10:00AM (#24968775)
I am not American, I am Polish. And having a car here is pretty much a necessity unless you live in the center of a big city. Unfortunately, most research in this seems to focus on places like Amsterdam or Berlin, but it completely ignores the reality outside of city center of capital cities.
Re:Lithuania is paying people to trade in polluting cars for... by TulliusCicero on Monday November 02, 2020 @01:16PM (#24971179)
Nah. We live on the outskirts of Munich and it still works fine. Suburbs of Munich you can still get by without a car easily enough.

Hell, even little Bavarian towns that I've visited, you don't really need a car, the way you do in the states. Somewhere like Lenggries or Bad Toelz, you can absolutely get around walking and biking, it's safe and pleasant and convenient in-town, even though these are nowhere close to big cities (IIRC Lenggries is like 10k people). Now, visiting any other city using buses/trains out there far, that's a pain, so you probably want a car, but you don't absolutely need one for daily life.

Compare that to living in the south SF bay area, which has a sizable population, but getting by without a car is nevertheless a nightmare. Biking is dangerous -- the year before I moved, I got hit twice by cars, including once with my son on it -- there's almost nothing within walking distance (and it's highly unpleasant to boot) and public transit is sparse and slow.

Anyway, I can't speak for Poland, but just about everywhere I've visited in Europe, compared to the US the necessity for a car is very drastically reduced. Even the places where you want a car for some trips, you often don't really need them for daily basic errands.

Re:Lithuania is paying people to trade in polluting cars for... by Schiendelman on Monday November 02, 2020 @10:06AM (#24968834)
The shift in where people live is increasingly toward cities, and away from places where one is dependent on a car. That trend needs to continue for us to continue to afford our infrastructure and survive as a species, so it's where we're going to focus.
Re:Lithuania is paying people to trade in polluting cars for... by IgorPartola on Monday November 02, 2020 @08:54AM (#24968117)
Depending on where you live a car may be a necessity. In suburban or rural US you won’t have a nice time. The more infrastructure you have to alleviate the need for personal cars the less you need a car or a car replacement.
Re:Lithuania is paying people to trade in polluting cars for... by toomuchtodo on Monday November 02, 2020 @11:41AM (#24970007)
Would you mind sharing a link to the electric cargo bike you selected?
Re:Lithuania is paying people to trade in polluting cars for... by TulliusCicero on Monday November 02, 2020 @01:12PM (#24971108)
We use this: https://www.wintherbikes.com/product-items/cargoo/

Though we were also looking at the Babboe Big and Curve, and I know a lot of people like the Urban Arrow.

The Winther works fine, but I'm not in love with it as a particular model. There's lots of room for improvement.

Re:Lithuania is paying people to trade in polluting cars for... by PiotrVonKleve on Monday November 02, 2020 @07:24PM (#24975025)
I can personally recommend the Vogue Carry 3 (we own one, also family of 3) https://www.voguefietsen.nl/carry Popular is also the model TROY. Price around 2000€ (e-bike versions).