I disagree with you. The signal/noise ratio has gone down considerably. What I'm noticing now is that people are writing longer comments, but the comments have considerably less substance.

People can't stand out based on upvotes (actual community approval) so they're trying to stand out based on post-length.

At a very basic glance it appears that what you're saying is true, but I've found the opposite.

Removing the obvious noise comments like "+1", "lol", bad jokes etc. how are you defining signal and noise?

This is my entire point: I don't care about the points when I know about the topic, it's when I'm not qualified to decide what is signal and noise that they are valuable.

I can't agree that the signal noise ratio has gone up since the system changed, though this is a subjective, unmeasurable point.

It may improve the "level of discussion" in some abstract way, but it certainly does make it less useful for individual readers.

It was common, before, for me to jump into the comments of a dicussion, check out the few highest rated ones, and then read the article with that information in mind, coming back to read other comments after that. With nothing to differentiate upvoted comments (unless they happen to be at the same thread level in the same thread), there's no way for me to do that, now. I don't view this as a good thing.

Maybe it's making the site less useful to those who are making the site less useful.

You don't seem to accept that other people may have different tastes than you. I often use the vote count to be more efficient in getting a grasp of the issues quickly, without reading everything. Great for you if you like to read everything from start to finish. Not everyone does, at least not all the time.

> You don't seem to accept that other people may have different tastes than you.

No. I'm well aware that others have different tastes.

What I'm arguing is that this feature that some people find convenient and harmless is not in fact harmless, and actually systemically degrades the site over time.

It's a systems problem, not a problem with any one individual.

Well, thanks for being direct, at least.

If points aren't being shown, why have them in the first place? What's the point?

Points should reflect the quality of the comment. If it's not being used for that, it's worthless to have.

Showing them days later, after the discussion is finished, is also fairly worthless.

I'd much rather have some indicator of quality posts. We already have an indicator for poorer quality posts. Their is value in knowing what your peers think.