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Re:Mailchimp outlines right to ban users for “inaccurate” co... by mmastrac on Friday October 30, 2020 @12:59PM (#24944284)
Denying someone a cake based on their unchangeable sexuality is not the same as denying someone a place to email unproven allegations about the son of a politician with an eye to unduly influence an election.

You can choose whether to be a QAnon'er. You can't choose to be straight.

Re:Mailchimp outlines right to ban users for “inaccurate” co... by googthrowaway42 on Friday October 30, 2020 @01:20PM (#24944553)
> Denying someone a cake

It wasn't about denying someone a cake. The shop had many premade cakes available for purchase. It was about being forced to create a custom LGBT themed cake that the gay couple wanted baked.

If you believe they should have been forced to do that you are an authoritarian.

Re:Mailchimp outlines right to ban users for “inaccurate” co... by daveFNbuck on Friday October 30, 2020 @01:40PM (#24944823)
It wasn't about designing and LGBT-themed cake. They didn't discuss the design of the cake at all [1]. It was about making a cake that would be used by gays at their wedding.

[1] https://www.scotusblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/16-111...

Re:Mailchimp outlines right to ban users for “inaccurate” co... by googthrowaway42 on Friday October 30, 2020 @01:48PM (#24944898)
From your linked court document: "In July 2012, Craig and Mullins visited Masterpiece, a bakery in Lakewood, Colorado, and requested that Phillips design and create a cake to celebrate their same-sex wedding."

"LGBT-themed" I suppose is too strong a description so I will grant you that given that they never got into design discussions.

Re:Mailchimp outlines right to ban users for “inaccurate” co... by heavyset_go on Friday October 30, 2020 @01:44PM (#24944861)
No, they did not want a "custom LGBT themed cake", they requested a cake that happened to be for gay people getting married.

> If you believe they should have been forced to do that you are an authoritarian.

It's about as authoritarian as saying that businesses had to integrate and serve interracial couples despite business owners claiming that their religions forbid race mixing, which is exactly what they claimed several decades ago.

Re:Mailchimp outlines right to ban users for “inaccurate” co... by googthrowaway42 on Friday October 30, 2020 @01:50PM (#24944923)
> they requested a cake that happened to be for gay people getting married.

From the court filing: "In July 2012, Craig and Mullins visited Masterpiece, a bakery in Lakewood, Colorado, and requested that Phillips design and create a cake to celebrate their same-sex wedding."

They requested that the bakers design the cake for their gay wedding yes. You can't make people design things for you if they don't want to. If you believe that people should be able to compel this sort of work then you are an authoritarian.

Re:Mailchimp outlines right to ban users for “inaccurate” co... by heavyset_go on Friday October 30, 2020 @01:55PM (#24944992)
I'm not sure where you're getting "a custom LGBT themed cake" from "create a cake to celebrate their same-sex wedding".

The first claim elicits images of rainbows and positive affirmations of gay marriage, and the second is just a cake that's for two people getting married who happen to be gay.

> If you believe that people should be able to compel this sort of work then you are an authoritarian.

On a scale of 1 to 10, how authoritarian was it when the government forced wedding planners, wedding reception venues, photographers, dessert shops etc to plan and serve custom wedding plans and events for interracial couples despite business owners claiming that their religions forbid race mixing?

Re:Mailchimp outlines right to ban users for “inaccurate” co... by googthrowaway42 on Friday October 30, 2020 @01:57PM (#24945024)
I retract my use of the term "LGBT themed", that was too strong a description. However at the very least common sense tells us it would have had some reference to the homosexual nature of the marriage (e.g. "Adam & Steve" written in icing)

> On a scale of 1 to 10, how authoritarian was it when the government forced wedding planners, wedding reception venues, photographers, dessert shops etc to plan and serve custom wedding plans and events for interracial couples despite business owners claiming that their religions forbid race mixing?

Do you have an actual example of this happening?

Re:Mailchimp outlines right to ban users for “inaccurate” co... by heavyset_go on Friday October 30, 2020 @03:26PM (#24945926)
I'm on my phone, but here is a quote from the ACLU[1]:

> Instances of institutions and individuals claiming a right to discriminate in the name of religion are not new. In the 1960s, we saw objections to laws requiring integration in restaurants because of sincerely held beliefs that God wanted the races to be separate. We saw religiously affiliated universities refuse to admit students who engaged in interracial dating. In those cases, we recognized that requiring integration was not about violating religious liberty; it was about ensuring fairness. It is no different today.

This is a good write up about religion and Loving v. Virginia[2].

[1] https://www.aclu.org/issues/religious-liberty/using-religion...

[2] https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=55...

Re:Mailchimp outlines right to ban users for “inaccurate” co... by googthrowaway42 on Friday October 30, 2020 @04:36PM (#24946633)
I am aware we have these civil rights laws. I am asking if you can find a scenario where someone was forced to engage in creative work for someone under these laws.

For example, someone forced to be a wedding photographer of an interracial wedding when they didn't want to.

Re:Mailchimp outlines right to ban users for “inaccurate” co... by chownie on Sunday November 01, 2020 @12:20PM (#24960919)
They shouldn't have to make the cake, but they should be open to legal challenge or fines for not doing it. Discrimination is voluntary, sexuality isn't.
Re:Mailchimp outlines right to ban users for “inaccurate” co... by rhcom2 on Friday October 30, 2020 @03:33PM (#24946006)
If you replace gay with white/black/christian/jewish, does that still make you an authoritarian?
Re:Mailchimp outlines right to ban users for “inaccurate” co... by drenvuk on Friday October 30, 2020 @04:47PM (#24946742)
Yes. Just based on definitions. Are you trying to prove him right?
Re:Mailchimp outlines right to ban users for “inaccurate” co... by googthrowaway42 on Friday October 30, 2020 @05:36PM (#24947116)
Yes and for the record I'm Jewish.
Re:Mailchimp outlines right to ban users for “inaccurate” co... by anongraddebt on Friday October 30, 2020 @01:09PM (#24944396)
>unproven allegations

This entire thread concerns Mailchimp specifically. Not sure there is a clearer definition of advertising than "unproven allegations".

Re:Mailchimp outlines right to ban users for “inaccurate” co... by amadeuspagel on Friday October 30, 2020 @04:51PM (#24946773)
You can choose whether to be a muslim. Does that mean discriminating against muslims is ok?