In a very large company where you are negotiating with a dedicated HR recruiter, it's a very different process. They will never ever talk to you again after you sign on the dotted line, and have a very different, very narrow set of parameters to work within - and may indeed have expectations that go with that focused role: i.e. a team lead would expect you to be upfront and productive; but a car salesperson or a real estate salesperson would expect you to haggle and negotiate. Not saying I like that, or that I enjoy the prospect or process, but it benefits to be cognizant of the nature of process and expectations.
Up front info is worth gold. If I know it is one of the scenarios you mentioned, or haggling is expected, game on!
I am fine with a haggle. Lots of ways to see value. Great discussion!
In your narrow scenario, I would compute needs plus reasonable wants, then add on compensation for any draconian policy and drop a number. Hit or miss. Not my problem, unless it is.
If it is my problem? Get a deal, keep life funded and look for better as ones risk and cost profile permits.
One qualifier is whether the position has a sales or biz dev component. Deffo haggle. Expected. There is a need to sell too, so make it sizzle.
Getting peoples attention generally requires meeting needs as a minimum. Wants are nice to have, and if they are reasonably funded, can get a persons full attention.
Let the other party consider it from there.
I have always been perfectly frank and cordial about it. The way I see it, being able to have an honest discussion about these things means the beginning of a great work relationship.
Usually, that all results in a how we get there discussion. Put costs, risks, all of it on the table.