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Re:Books in .txt format for AI training purposes by Voloskaya on Sunday October 25, 2020 @11:11AM (#24886852)
This is very cool and useful, thanks.

However, saying: "Suppose you wanted to train a world-class GPT model, just like OpenAI. How? You have no data. Now you do. Now everyone does"

Is quite a stretch. You need much, much more that 36GB of quality data to train a world-class GPT model.

Re:Books in .txt format for AI training purposes by zurfer on Sunday October 25, 2020 @01:20PM (#24887952)
No, You don't need more. This is compressed text. All of English Wikipedia is roughly 20 GB. You can train amazing and state of the art text models with this data in addition.

Openai states themselves that they trained on "40GB of internet text"

https://openai.com/blog/better-language-models/

Re:Books in .txt format for AI training purposes by Voloskaya on Sunday October 25, 2020 @05:14PM (#24889929)
You can indeed train state of the art text models with this data provided you come up with some better architecture that what we currently have. What I am saying is that you cannot train state of the ART "GPT" models like the link is saying.

Your link is for GPT-2, GPT-3 used much, much more data.

GPT-3 was trained in part on "books2" corpus which is not public but seems to basically be the same thing as this: 200k books * 100k words per book on average * ~3 token per words = 60B tokens, books2 is 55B tokens so it checks out.

The total amount of tokens that GPT-3 was trained on from all sources is a combined 500B tokens, this is merely 10% of what they have.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2005.14165.pdf

Re:Books in .txt format for AI training purposes by bigbubba on Sunday October 25, 2020 @01:51PM (#24888288)
The GPT approach must be very poor; with only a fraction of that information you can train a human to perform better than any GPT model shown thus far. When you look at power burned doing it, the gap is even wider.

Obviously our wetware is optimized for it and we aren't true blank slates, but the enormous magnitude of the discrepancy makes me think we're on the wrong path.

Re:Books in .txt format for AI training purposes by gamblor956 on Sunday October 25, 2020 @04:06PM (#24889458)
GPT and most modern "AI" approaches suffer from the same problem: they're just brute force algorithmic approaches that don't mimic "intelligence" in any way. Since there is no understanding, they can't learn in the same way humans or other living creatures do (in general terms, by extrapolation).

The ironic thing is that ML became popular because we didn't have the technology back then to properly model actual neuronal activity. Now we do, but ML is so established that modeling "true" intelligence is no longer de jure.

Re:Books in .txt format for AI training purposes by nialv7 on Sunday October 25, 2020 @05:39PM (#24890126)
That's a bold claim to make, given we ourselves don't even understand what understanding, or intelligence is. So how can you support your claim that what GPT-3 does is not intelligence.
Re:Books in .txt format for AI training purposes by bigbubba on Monday October 26, 2020 @12:44PM (#24898147)
Personally I think our common definitions of intelligence are too narrowly defined, we have a bias towards recognizing intelligence similar to our own and a blindspot for intelligent systems unlike our own. I agree with Paul Stamets that mycelia networks may have a form of intelligence quite unlike our own. Large corporations likely have intelligence of their own ('slow AIs') and may in aggregate pursue goals that no individual participant in the organization agrees with (preference falsification demonstrates how such a thing might occur.) Closer to the traditional, I think reptiles may be far more intelligent that we usually give them credit for since we have a mammalian bias against their kind. Mammalians seem to have empathy circuits that fire more often for other mammals, and this inclines us to not consider the possible intelligence of non-mammals.

So, GPT? I think that's probably a form of intelligence too, but not one that's particularly similar to our own. I also doubt that we'll have much luck getting it to ever perform at near-human levels, when you consider the data and power requirements. I think it's not simply a matter of silicon vs wetware; I think the GPT approach is substantially more different from our own than the hardware it runs on. It's a form of intelligence but that doesn't mean it is like our own.

Re:Books in .txt format for AI training purposes by gamblor956 on Sunday October 25, 2020 @06:41PM (#24890722)
I'm not the only one. It's industry consensus.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/08/22/1007539/gpt3-ope...

Re:Books in .txt format for AI training purposes by nialv7 on Sunday October 25, 2020 @08:54PM (#24891719)
That doesn't answer the question.
Re:Books in .txt format for AI training purposes by nialv7 on Sunday October 25, 2020 @05:34PM (#24890098)
> with only a fraction of that information you can train a human to perform better than any GPT model shown thus far.

That's not a fair comparison. The human neural network is not trained _from scratch_. There is a very good fundamental structure we inherited through millions of years of evolution.

Re:Books in .txt format for AI training purposes by webmaven on Sunday October 25, 2020 @07:34PM (#24891165)
> The human neural network is not trained _from scratch_. There is a very good fundamental structure we inherited through millions of years of evolution.

It is worth noting that the training data used for training humans has been undergoing it's own optimization process for a while too (arguably for about 40ky, since the Upper Paleolithic Revolution, which is roughly when cultural evolution started taking over). In AI adjusting the training data is called Curriculum Learning. Right now most curriculum learning is done just by adjusting the order of training samples, rather than creating samples specifically optimized to facilitate learning (although GANs might be considered a Socratic approach to the latter, if you squint at it).

Re:Books in .txt format for AI training purposes by jononor on Sunday October 25, 2020 @07:50PM (#24891280)
Also, humans created all the text and the language and structures used within, for the purpose of communicating - so it is likely to be a good match for our cognitive systems.
Re:Books in .txt format for AI training purposes by bigbubba on Sunday October 25, 2020 @06:29PM (#24890623)
Yes, I conceded that we aren't blank slates. I still think we're on the wring track.
Re:Books in .txt format for AI training purposes by monsieurbanana on Sunday October 25, 2020 @02:00PM (#24888352)
I'm sure it's much more probable than we're in the wrong path, rather than the good one, but I don't think the amount of information needed by a GPT model can give insights to that.

Instead, as you pointed out, it's just proof of how efficient our wetware is.

Re:Books in .txt format for AI training purposes by minimaxir on Sunday October 25, 2020 @03:33PM (#24889190)
AI models suffer massive diminishing returns on both model size and amount of input text, which fortunately gives fresh models a chance to compete (the benefits of GPT-2/Transformer architectures is that they are capable of scaling indefinitely, but they still have diminishing returns)
Re:Books in .txt format for AI training purposes by Voloskaya on Sunday October 25, 2020 @05:16PM (#24889956)
I completly agree, it's a diminishing return but a return nonetheles, so to have a "world class GPT" model with 10% of the data, and 10% (optimistically) of the compute that OpenAI used, you will need some very very impressive innovation elsewhere.
Re:Books in .txt format for AI training purposes by asutekku on Sunday October 25, 2020 @06:20PM (#24890515)
36gb of compressed text is a lot though.
Re:Books in .txt format for AI training purposes by Voloskaya on Sunday October 25, 2020 @06:53PM (#24890796)
That's about 50B tokens. It can be a lot depending on what you want to do, but It's 10% of what GPT-3 (the definition of world class GPT model) used.
Re:Books in .txt format for AI training purposes by sillysaurusx on Sunday October 25, 2020 @07:13PM (#24890980)
For what it's worth, we're serious about replicating GPT-3. books3 is just one piece. You will notice I never claimed equivalency to GPT-3's training data.

books3 may be 10%, but The Pile is building the rest:

https://twitter.com/arankomatsuzaki/status/13204141418954874...

https://github.com/EleutherAI/The-Pile

https://www.eleuther.ai/get-involved

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/735217892517216366/...

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/735217892517216366/...

Re:Books in .txt format for AI training purposes by Voloskaya on Sunday October 25, 2020 @07:32PM (#24891142)
And again, I find books3 extremely cool and important work on your part, looking forward to the rest.

I just have a minor gripe with saying that "now we can train world class GPT model" thanks to that, as you said it's just one piece, and as a typicial HNist I had to point it out :).

Re:Books in .txt format for AI training purposes by sillysaurusx on Sunday October 25, 2020 @07:46PM (#24891257)
Believe it or not, I appreciate and relate to that sentiment.

But after spending roughly one year acquiring knowledge related to this work, I feel I can say with a fairly high degree of certainty that this dataset alone is enough to train a model that will achieve "world class" status in some area. Writing books, perhaps.

Which part of my logic do you feel is mistaken, and why? I am actually quite interested to hear thoughts from someone who is very pedantic about such things.

Re:Books in .txt format for AI training purposes by Voloskaya on Sunday October 25, 2020 @08:00PM (#24891347)
I don't think you are mistaken, I guess it's just that there is just so much information you can convey in a tweet, when I read "world class GPT model" I understand a model that will beat (or equal) on general NLG, which is not what you meant it seems.