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Re:Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes... by SilasX on Thursday October 22, 2020 @03:12PM (#24862110)
>Actually, history bears out that higher tax rates result in corporations re-investing more of their profits in the company and less in tax-avoidance accounting.

I'm just imagining the 1950s cottage industry in compensating executives with a company car, personal assistant outside of work, etc before the IRS caught up?

And all the present day shenanigans with Amazon/Apple etc hiding profits in Ireland?

Re:Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes... by gamblor956 on Thursday October 22, 2020 @04:09PM (#24862757)
In both of your 1950s examples, those expenditures flowed into the greater economy resulting in multiple additional taxable transactions while also supporting the livelihoods of one or more other economic participants. In other words, exactly what we want. But on a further note: these expenses never went away, many companies still do these kinds of things today.

The present day shenanigans were Apple and Amazon (note: Apple takes historical credit for being the first tech company to implement this structure) hiding profits in Ireland through the double dutch or similar structures. However, the EU has already attempted to crack down on the use of that structure and deemed it illegal. Companies that currently use the structure may be grandfathered in as a result of EU court decisions but no new companies can get implement the structure. Apple especially has been hoarding money overseas and not doing anything with it. In contrast, companies with higher tax rates have been very active about spending their overseas money rather than bringing it back to the US, precisely to avoid paying the higher taxes that repatriation would incur.

Yes, it's counterintutive. But it's how the world actually works.

Re:Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes... by SilasX on Thursday October 22, 2020 @04:41PM (#24863082)
>In both of your 1950s examples, those expenditures flowed into the greater economy resulting in multiple additional taxable transactions while also supporting the livelihoods of one or more other economic participants.

You're shifting the goalposts. First you were claiming that taxes don't generally spur avoidant behavior. Now you're claiming they do[1], and we want that.

Which is itself dubious. I'm pretty sure "we" don't want people to unilaterally exempt themselves from taxes by relabeling consumption as a business expense. (In the extreme case, imagine you can just pass on every desired purchase as a "wish list" to your employer and they buy it for you, "as a business expense" leaving you with no taxable income. Obviously the IRS has to crack down on that, and no one would call that "things working as intended".)

And we definitely don't want real resources going to gaming of the tax code, which is socially wasteful.

[1] and in the next paragraph, the tack of "but it's cool, they're gonna crack down on that later".

Re:Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes... by gamblor956 on Thursday October 22, 2020 @07:23PM (#24864408)
First you were claiming that taxes don't generally spur avoidant behavior. Now you're claiming they do[1], and we want that.

We're talking about different types of avoidance. I'm talking about real business spending, i.e., on facilities, equipment, employees, etc., as a means of tax avoidance. High taxes encourage this type of spending because (a) businesses that are growing are going to do this anyway and (b) they effectively get a discount for this anyway if they're making enough money to actually pay taxes.

But most people are referring to tax avoidance strategies like IP shifting, off-shoring, etc. I'm saying, that based on my professional experience as a tax advisor for a decade, that these activities are not motivated by high tax rates, and indeed were highest during periods of lower tax rates. (In the examples I mentioned above in the earlier comment, the companies weren't engaging in tax avoidance strategies, they were making business investments. The difference is that tax avoidance is entirely or primarily motivated by avoiding taxes and is pursued despite the lack of an actual business need; business investment may be motivated in part by avoiding taxes but is primarily driven by actual business needs and will not be pursued absent a business case for the spending.)

Which is itself dubious. I'm pretty sure "we" don't want people to unilaterally exempt themselves from taxes by relabeling consumption as a business expense

I don't understand where you're going with this. You brought up examples that are considered legitimate business expenses by the tax code, and have been for decades. Hell, they're the basis for all the in-office perks tech companies gave their employees pre-COVID. If you have an issue with whether they should be deductible on moral grounds, that's a separate discussion.

And again, my argument is based on how my clients, and US businesses in general, have actually responded to tax cuts and tax increases, and not to how they were theoretically expected to behave by people who aren't actually running successful businesses.