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Re:The 2020 census is being ‘sabotaged,’ says leading U.S. s... by Retric on Saturday October 17, 2020 @09:31AM (#24809848)
It might not be close to 50:50 but it’s not 95:5. Less tainted is still tainted.

When I say both sides, I mean both sides. Gerrymandering to give minorities districts for example does the same thing to undermine people’s faith in the system. The goal should be to outlaw gerrymandering not find some way to allow it to be useful politically.

Should people in DC maintain the right to vote? IMO they should, but it’s become a political issue not a democracy issue.

Re:The 2020 census is being ‘sabotaged,’ says leading U.S. s... by rc_mob on Saturday October 17, 2020 @09:44AM (#24809916)
Sure. But point is saying “both sides” right now is a harmful thing to say. The current Republican party is doing far more damage to democracy than any other in recent memory.
Re:The 2020 census is being ‘sabotaged,’ says leading U.S. s... by Retric on Saturday October 17, 2020 @11:29AM (#24810688)
Sadly doing more harm doesn’t prevent each side from attacking the other on this issue. Having a consistent stance that every vote should count resonances in a way that picking specific issues just doesn’t.

I am not saying you can’t play the game. It’s a terrible idea to split your states votes while the electoral collage is in it’s current form. Acknowledging this is how things are, and we should come up with a better solution is fine. Fighting each issue separately isn’t.

Re:The 2020 census is being ‘sabotaged,’ says leading U.S. s... by pessimizer on Saturday October 17, 2020 @09:45AM (#24809920)
Nobody is gerrymandering to give minorities districts. People are either splitting minorities between several districts in order to keep them from having a say, or packing them all into one district to keep surrounding districts from having Democratic majorities (and to attack people having a problem with the shape of the district as attackers of the only district representing that minority.)

> Should people in DC maintain the right to vote? IMO they should, but it’s become a political issue not a democracy issue.

Only in the 21st century do voting issues only become political when they can be looked at in terms of race.

"Political" means about the process of governance, not "when minorities or women have a complaint."

Re:The 2020 census is being ‘sabotaged,’ says leading U.S. s... by Retric on Saturday October 17, 2020 @10:03AM (#24810033)
Maryland and California both have several arguably well intentioned though racially motivated districts. The Supreme Court has ruled that splitting minority districts is a violation of the U.S. Constitution as it weakens their voice. Which has made this a common fight between the parties.

However, this idea that districts should be advantageous to some group is inherently corrosive to the idea of democracy. You can’t have your cake and eat it to, either districts need to be arbitrary lines drawn without political influence or your just deciding what influences are allowed.

PS: Packing means these districts can also be used to hurt democrats by creating a single district with extreme bias you can create several safe districts which would otherwise be contested.

Re:The 2020 census is being ‘sabotaged,’ says leading U.S. s... by UncleMeat on Saturday October 17, 2020 @09:48AM (#24809944)
> The goal should be to outlaw gerrymandering

Precisely one party is proposing laws and suits that push in this direction.

Re:The 2020 census is being ‘sabotaged,’ says leading U.S. s... by crisdux on Saturday October 17, 2020 @09:50AM (#24809958)
I'm assuming by right to vote you mean congressional representation. Since certainly residents of DC do vote for president, among other leaders.

Of course congressional representation for DC is a political issue. Framing this as an issue of democracy doesn't tell the whole story. DC is a federal district and by design has no representation in Congress. This was a political decision.

Congressional action to grant DC statehood outright has no precedent and seemingly goes against the constitution. If residents of DC want the same congressional representation as states, then retrocession to return parts of DC to Maryland or Virginia is the main constitutionally viable option - this has been done before. Congress granting DC statehood outright would be a misuse of their power. This whole thing is rife with politics.

Re:The 2020 census is being ‘sabotaged,’ says leading U.S. s... by Retric on Saturday October 17, 2020 @10:25AM (#24810185)
I would be fine dumping DC voters into MD and or VA, hell randomly assign them across the country.

Playing the hypothetical harm issue is kind of laughing in the face of democracy as an idea. They don’t even have final say in local laws.