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Re:YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation by javajosh on Thursday October 15, 2020 @09:15AM (#24788264)
Thank you for saying this. It takes the discussion in a different, but I think more useful, direction. Suffering is caused when you believe something that isn't true, and the rational idealists don't want to accept "it's natural for people to believe in lies", as you say. (There is a juicy irony here, which I will leave as an exercise for the reader.)

The key innovation we require, as a society, are better feedback mechanisms to correct inaccurate beliefs. This means more frequent, but smaller, pain in response to mistakes. To those who object, the alternative isn't no pain, but rather, the catastrophic pain of collapse. Society is really a collection of institutions, and somehow in all institutions, loyalty has usurped principle, and accountability fails because the accuser is shunned, hated, feared. So, institution by institution, we weaken.

The solution, for example in academia, is to shun (fire, blacklist, etc) those "researchers" who cheat, lie, and distort their findings. In the justice system, lawyers, police, and judges who break the rules should be punished more, not less, severely than the rest of us. Again, these are not changes born of malice, or a desire to see more suffering, but rather a price we must accept to maintain healthy institutions with high standards, and so, prevent societal collapse.

In some ways I think "cancel culture" is a reaction to this lack of accountability, as an attempt to replace it, to ape it, almost like a cargo cult. Of course, there are huge problems with this, not the least of which there is not an institution behind it, but rather just mob rule that answers to no-one, not even itself.

Re:YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation by ketzo on Thursday October 15, 2020 @12:35PM (#24790522)
I definitely agree on the cancel culture aspect. I'm just out of college, and for people my age and younger, there is such a desperate and helpless anger towards the people in power.

There is absolutely nothing concrete that I can do on a day-to-day basis to protect my world, my friends, my family from people that I watch lie, cheat, and steal on national television. It's absolutely sickening.

I vote, and I canvass, and I donate. But man, when I see someone on twitter talking about how they think gay people should be shot like animals or something equally insane, it feels like there's one small right thing I could do, which is to make that person feel like shit. I don't, mostly -- it's just a toxic cycle for my personal wellbeing -- but I see the attraction. Yelling at people online (and to a further extent, excluding them from your world) feels like the only thing you can do sometimes.

Re:YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation by javajosh on Thursday October 15, 2020 @05:27PM (#24794235)
I'm 20 years out of college, and I feel the same way. At my best, I remember to scale my energy according to proximity: things nearer to me get more energy. Part of the problem is that we're presented with a parade of information about stuff that isn't happening here, around me. That, coupled with the aching feeling that you're a bad person if you don't pay attention to what's happening in the world, even its far away. That is really sick, because it's guilting you into paying attention to stuff you cannot, by definition, control.

And then we, the techno-futurists, don't want to deal with what's in front of us because its too small, doesn't scale, or because this problem will go away once we reach the economic Singularity or have flying cars or whatever utopian dream is in fashion.

Personally, I think we need better systems to leverage people's real, concrete pain into actionable change. Like, you should be able to donate money or time to fixing the things that really hurt you. Maybe its the DMV. Or maybe its traffic court. Or maybe its a late fee on a credit card. Or maybe its finding out that a fact you believed was made up. Right now, everything is so siloed. Imagine if everyone hurt by the DMV could pledge money to fix the problem.

Re:YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation by gridlockd on Thursday October 15, 2020 @09:41AM (#24788552)
> The key innovation we require, as a society, are better feedback mechanisms to correct inaccurate beliefs.

I have come to the conclusion that managing our collective delusions is more important than correcting them. Reality is unbearable to the human psyche. Most collective delusions are benign or even beneficial to society.

Re:YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation by ben_w on Thursday October 15, 2020 @11:43AM (#24789781)
I’ve been wondering for some time if all cognitive biases are necessary for us to function; some socially, some because evidence is extremely scarce compared to scientific standards, some because of the need to avoid negative effects of exploration, etc.