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Re:San Francisco’s political leadership has squandered a for... by olivermarks on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @01:22AM (#24773367)
When Gavin Newsom was San Francisco mayor he issued a proclamation in 2004 that he would end 'homelessness' within ten years. https://www.sfchronicle.com/archive/item/A-decade-of-homeles...

As California governor he is now rolling out that failed policy across the state, attracting indigents and itinerants from far and wide with substance abuse, mental health and/or economic hardship problems.

People who aren't thinking assume 'not in my back yard' is the problem with resisting including these hordes of people 'into their community'. The latest fiasco is a half billion dollars being spent on buying hotels to 'convert into housing' across California. This destroys bed tax revenue, places for tourists to stay while introducing a sizable contingent of people with serious issues into downtown areas.

Proven approaches are projects like loaves and fishes in Austin Texas but California is ignoring cost effective and practical solutions, instead behaving like the well meaning but naive parents of an addict, lavishing money and help on their very sick child until it runs out with no success. https://mlf.org

California's autocratic political class are going to have a serious reckoning soon...

Re:San Francisco’s political leadership has squandered a for... by phobosanomaly on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @01:28AM (#24773399)
Although undoubtedly an excellent program, Loaves and fishes is projected to provides housing for 200 people at some point in the future. SF currently has somewhere between 8,000 and 10,000 homeless people living on the streets right now.

From that SF Chronicle article:

"A decade and roughly $1.5 billion later, the city has succeeded in moving 19,500 homeless people off its streets, roughly equivalent to relocating the entire Castro district. But despite that major effort, the homeless population hasn’t budged, showing that as one homeless person is helped, another takes his place."

I mean, that's just incredible. They relocated nearly 20,000 people off the streets.

What else are they supposed to do? You can't accuse them of not trying. They moved 100x more people off the streets than that Loaves and Fishes housing project is projected to do at some point in the future.

It's a tremendously difficult problem to actually solve within the constraints of the constitution, and human decency.

Re:San Francisco’s political leadership has squandered a for... by olivermarks on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @01:49AM (#24773518)
You've missed the fundamental flaw in the logic - as you spend lavishly to 'house' (actually pay to put in a flophouse) one person another shows up, having heard through the grapevine the pickings are excellent in San Francisco. The 'nearly 20k people off the streets' was proven to be wildly inaccurate. Austin's Loaves and Fishes was just a small scale example, there are lots of practical ways to manage the rapidly increasing transient population and help with addiction and mental health issues that don't involve inner city camp sites and hotel rooms.
Re:San Francisco’s political leadership has squandered a for... by phobosanomaly on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @01:58AM (#24773557)
This is a problem I want to see solved very much.

If there are practical ways, throw some bullet-points down, and I'll be happy to consider them.

It there are easy solutions, I am as interested in anyone to see them.

Re:San Francisco’s political leadership has squandered a for... by smaryjerry on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @10:30AM (#24776923)
The general principle is that incentives work. Make one option better than another and people will flock to it. Current implementation is that you will get fed, housed, medical care, and even paid with no participation on your part. You are incentivized to continue what got you homeless, usually drug use or not attempting to work. The simple solution is require recovery to receive benefits - require drug tests, require attendance to lectures, require applying for jobs or that you get one. The point is to make good behavior better than the alternative. Another way to incentivize good behavior is to make programs benefit both parties. Can collecting was one such program, litter is collected and people without other options make at least some money. When you give people the money there is little benefit to a city in return. A lot of the complaints can be rectified by cleaning jobs in particular.
Re:San Francisco’s political leadership has squandered a for... by phobosanomaly on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @12:24PM (#24778419)
That is a great approach for people without mental illness.
Re:San Francisco’s political leadership has squandered a for... by olivermarks on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @01:45PM (#24779381)
If you're in California get involved! I have

http://www.sonomacountyhomeless.com

It's no good asking to have ideas presented to you for critique and evaluation. Go and talk to street people and get their perspective. Challenge out of touch politicians and root out corruption or it will get worse.

Re:San Francisco’s political leadership has squandered a for... by phobosanomaly on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @07:51PM (#24783132)
The irony is, the point of my comments in this thread were to move from Zhenya's bagging on both politicians and homeless people without offering any constructive solutions, to having a productive discussion about how to make things better.

It worked to some extent.

It generated a lot of ideas, and I learned a lot. I hope it helped others too.

I'm happy with my contribution involving keeping my own severely mentally-ill relatives off the streets. If our family hadn't gotten lucky with some county programs, a couple of people close to me would now be living on the street due to no fault of their own. They're sick, and it's a full-time job split between various family members to keep them above water.

Thanks for your input. I apologize if I come across as overly argumentative. I'm just bored and interested in the subject. If we were in person, I'd buy you a beer.

Re:San Francisco’s political leadership has squandered a for... by olivermarks on Thursday October 15, 2020 @12:58PM (#24790819)
All over the western world we urgently need political leadership who are interested in investing in holistic prevention of expensive worst case scenarios. We don't have viable safety nets and support systems but we do have a burgeoning 'homeless industrial complex' that is intimately linked to the prison industrial complex. This is profoundly wrong IMO and I am very vocal about that. This lack of a safety net coupled with labor and cost intensive care for the mentally ill and addicted is corrosive to society on so many levels and fundamental to everyone's quality of life. The only way to change this is to be extremely noisy and aggressive about what our 'leadership' is doing IMO. I am partially motivated from a young bay area relative dying from opioid o/d this February after his family had burned through a huge sum on rehabs, chasing after him + the emotional burn out toll. We are headed in the wrong direction...
Re:San Francisco’s political leadership has squandered a for... by TMWNN on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @02:34AM (#24773753)
>You've missed the fundamental flaw in the logic - as you spend lavishly to 'house' (actually pay to put in a flophouse) one person another shows up, having heard through the grapevine the pickings are excellent in San Francisco.

Correct. Why is the homeless problem in San Francisco so much worse than in San Diego, despite the latter having nicer climate? Because the goodies are in San Francisco and people know it.

Re:San Francisco’s political leadership has squandered a for... by phobosanomaly on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @02:48AM (#24773837)
San Diego has more homeless people than SF.

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2018/dec/17/san-diego-has-fourth-h...

It's less visible because SD is way larger geographically than SF (231 square miles vs. 372 sq miles in the city proper), plus there's no bay to the East, it just goes into more urban area. But, yeah, there's a big skid-row tent-city southeast of the Padres stadium.

SF is a small city and it just squeeeeezes everyone together so it's in your face.

Re:San Francisco’s political leadership has squandered a for... by TMWNN on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @03:02AM (#24773927)
San Diego County (not city) also has more than three times the population of San Francisco, so all the more dilution of the homeless. But there's no way that you can tell me that the homeless problem is worse in San Diego than in San Francisco. My comment was to point out why this is so, despite the former's much nicer climate.
Re:San Francisco’s political leadership has squandered a for... by phobosanomaly on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @03:28AM (#24774099)
What does 'worse' mean?

If you mean in-your-face, I'm thinking it's an urban density thing.

SF is small and incredibly dense. So, the homeless people that are there are packed into this tiny space along with everyone else and you literally have to step over them on the way to work.

If the population of SD was packed into the geographic area of SF with no available land to the North, East, and West, everyone would be stepping over homeless people on the way to work there too.

Same with LA. People come and jam themselves wherever they can fit. If there's fewer miles of sidewalk, density of homeless people goes up, it's more visible, and you get people living on your front doorstep.

On the list of urban density, SF is number 6 and SD doesn't even make the list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...

Re:San Francisco’s political leadership has squandered a for... by foolmeonce on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @02:04AM (#24773598)
Why does SF get to embrace all the tech talent it atttacts, but not need to deal with rising population of less desirable demographics? Is there something about California that makes it more worthy of the countries wealth than the communities with less resources?
Re:San Francisco’s political leadership has squandered a for... by wahern on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @02:00AM (#24773567)
> As California governor he is now rolling out that failed policy across the state

No he's not. He's on the record as saying that the approach he applied in SF failed. I'm fairly certain he's said it more straightforwardly, but from a quick Google search with a 2014 quote,

> "There’s a mythology that you can — quote unquote — end homelessness at any moment, but there are new people coming in, suffering through the cycles of their lives," he said. "It’s the manifestation of complete, abject failure as a society. We’ll never solve this at City Hall."

Source: https://www.sfchronicle.com/archive/item/A-decade-of-homeles...

And here's what he said in a recent state of the state address:

> "Of course, the fundamental building block of California’s solution has to be more housing. A comprehensive response to our collective failure to build enough of it. When we don’t build housing for people at all income levels, we worsen the homeless crisis. It’s a vicious cycle and we own it. And the only sustainable way out of it is to massively increase housing production."

Source: https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-aler...

Also noteworthy in that speech is that he spends more time discussing health care and mental health issues than housing, per se.

Newsom's talking points on homelessness are often annoyingly vague (owing to his very ambitious career goals), but note what he doesn't say and what he doesn't support. Notably he doesn't support a legal right to housing, and is on the record saying so. His complete silence on Senator Wiener's bills was also deafening. Following his politics over the years it's fairly obvious he supports Weiner in principle but 1) knew it would never pass and 2) didn't want to burn his political capital on a loser. Also note the sums in his spending proposals for new, publicly subsidized construction; they're ridiculously paltry if the actual intent is to literally use public funds to build homes for all the homeless. Rather, it's obvious he's placating the far left without burning real cash--a strategy that many centrist SF politicians are actually quite adept at.

The sad fact is that plenty of California politicians know exactly what needs to be happen, including and especially Newsom. But California voters, both liberal and conservative, don't want to loosen housing regulations state-wide (including overriding local restrictions), and far too many on the left unthinkingly assume it's feasible to publicly fund or exact, dollar-for-dollar, enough construction to "fix" the homeless issue. Newsom definitely no longer believes, and he, like Brown and many others, are also perfectly aware how hopeless the situation is in terms of electoral support for meaningful reform and choose to stay clear of attacking the issue head-on.

Don't blame the politicians for failing to produce solutions according to the electorate's inconsistent and incoherent preferences. And especially don't blame a man who successfully[1] implemented a widely popular but destined to fail policy and then publicly went on the record as admitting to the fundamentally flawed premise. We need more politicians capable of doing that and fewer that simply point fingers.

[1] He promised to create beds for every homeless person at the time, and by the time the program wrapped up it succeeded in creating that number of beds. Of course, for every homeless person given a bed and taken off the street someone else replaced them on the street. And he admits it--lesson learned.

Re:San Francisco’s political leadership has squandered a for... by olivermarks on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @02:05AM (#24773611)
Newsom first launched project roomkey, housing thousands of street people in rented hotel rooms earlier this year. He then announced project homekey, spending vast sums on buying hotels and motels to convert into 'housing' this summer. The astonishingly autocratic one party California government have been buying city center hotels with no discussion or oversight to convert into 'homeless''homes'. Newsom is doubling down on his failed policies and despite being family is now in danger of burning out his political capital.
Re:San Francisco’s political leadership has squandered a for... by wahern on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @02:34AM (#24773751)
SF spent $1.5 billion building housing. Newsom's budget allocates $550 million over several years for the entire state to build new housing. (SF population is ~800k as compared to the state population of over 35 million.) The rest (~$750 million) is for general homeless services, including mental health care. Note that alot of the beds purchased with the funds have already gone to house people displaced by wildfires.

As I said, it's clear from the sums and structure of the funding that Newsom isn't actually trying to replicate the SF program. But it's easy for conservative pundits to make hay out of things (especially when the announcements themselves are tailored to placate the left) rather than support actual reform efforts. As I said, the politics in California is fscked up. But using Newsom as a scapegoat merely evinces partisan blinders.

Re:San Francisco’s political leadership has squandered a for... by olivermarks on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @11:49AM (#24777982)
I'm a registered Democrat and have massive issues with both lobbyist dominated parties FWIW. Politics in California is fscked up because there is no opposition and increasingly incompetent, autocratic rule. The homeless 'non profit' industry is huge and growing. https://hcd.ca.gov/grants-funding/active-funding/homekey.sht... Has details of the crazy Homekey spending on hotels. There is very little housing being built it is extremely expensive. https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/homeless/article245547415....