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Re:Recycling was a lie to sell more plastic, recycling indus... by 1propionyl on Thursday October 08, 2020 @12:23AM (#24715772)
Even without addressing the majority of the substance that the parent comment is trying to portray, there should be one major takeaway:

Unregulated markets don't work, except in the way that cancer works to propagate itself before its host dies. They're not self-balancing ecosystems. After all, they're comprised of people.

Completely managed and controlled markets similarly don't work, and for largely the same reasons. After all, they're comprised of people.

Humanity has a unique knack for at least these two things: 1) constructing games, 2) cheating those games it has created for itself to play.

It's no longer enough to hedge against the risks of idealized perfectly spherical and rational actors bouncing about. We have to begin to take into account our own complexity and how we subvert the rules we lay out for ourselves.

Re:Recycling was a lie to sell more plastic, recycling indus... by ulucs on Thursday October 08, 2020 @02:41AM (#24716499)
Can I interest you in incentive-compatible mechanism design and implementation theory? They are well-established economy fields and do work that you proposed.
Re:Recycling was a lie to sell more plastic, recycling indus... by AshWolfy on Thursday October 08, 2020 @12:37AM (#24715857)
The idea we can regulate bad systems into being good is just dumb
Re:Recycling was a lie to sell more plastic, recycling indus... by jbay808 on Thursday October 08, 2020 @12:51AM (#24715947)
Re:Recycling was a lie to sell more plastic, recycling indus... by AshWolfy on Thursday October 08, 2020 @12:32PM (#24720746)
We knew asbestos was bad since the 1890s and it wasnt regulated until 1967, lead was known to be bad since the mid 1800s while lead paint wasnt banned until 1978 and leaded gas wasnt banned until 2000, lead paint and pipes are still plentiful across the US. Cigarettes were known to be harmful since the 1890s, and the government didnt do anything about it until 1964.

Regulation can be successful, but at best its slow and incremental, and in the long term corporations will weaken and subvert them. Just having a system which incentivizes good behavior in the first place would be better than trying to regulate bad systems

Re:Recycling was a lie to sell more plastic, recycling indus... by SAI_Peregrinus on Monday October 12, 2020 @01:58PM (#24757302)
Regulations are inherently a system that incentivizes good behavior. That's their entire purpose!
Re:Recycling was a lie to sell more plastic, recycling indus... by AshWolfy on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @10:22PM (#24772504)
Regulations are an attempt to correct for bad incentives.
Re:Recycling was a lie to sell more plastic, recycling indus... by brnt on Thursday October 08, 2020 @01:55AM (#24716285)
The idea that you cant is precisely the defeatist attitude some of your industrial overlords were hoping for.
Re:Recycling was a lie to sell more plastic, recycling indus... by AshWolfy on Thursday October 08, 2020 @12:32PM (#24720757)
what they really dont want is for us to consider alternative systems
Re:Recycling was a lie to sell more plastic, recycling indus... by sthnblllII on Thursday October 08, 2020 @02:00AM (#24716311)
Yea its easy to say that and then you end up with Love Canal and quack doctors injecting people with bleach to cure their cancer. People do things. Laws and morals stop them from doing bad things. Pray your country doesnt have many people no morals.