News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Police are requesting data from smart speakers by WalterBright on Monday October 05, 2020 @01:35PM (#24689959)
> they expect it to be inflicted on people who aren't them.

I strongly oppose excessive force by police. But I'm aware that police are people, and I am fully cognizant that they have a gun and I do whatever is necessary to assure them that I am not a threat to their safety.

For example, during a traffic stop I keep my hands firmly visible and on the steering wheel. When the cop asks for my license, I say it is in my right front pocket. I do not move my hands to get it until he says ok. I do not reach for the glove box until he says ok.

I do not berate officers, I don't argue with them, I don't move unless they tell me to. Yes, I have been held at gunpoint by the police.

I never lunge for my cell phone in my pocket. I do not run at the cop or away from him. I do not try to touch the cop. I do not reach for the cop's weapon.

Back in the 60's, when toy guns looked like real guns, my dad (WW2 and KW combat vet) gave me one. I am white and lived in a small all white town. My dad said if I ever pointed it at anyone, I was liable to be shot, and he didn't want me to be shot. Being a rather stupid boy, I pointed it at people, and he took it away.

Always remember you're dealing with an armed person who does not know you're a sweet old gent with a cellphone in his pocket. Never force him to make a split second decision at night in poor visibility as to whether you're whipping out a cell phone or a gun.

Re:Police are requesting data from smart speakers by bleepblorp on Monday October 05, 2020 @02:24PM (#24690470)
By all means take protective measures when interacting with American police, but by no means should this expectation of submission be considered normal in a developed country. Not should it be assumed to offer much protection; US police are sufficiently trigger-happy that they'll kill people even for following their commands.

American police kill 35 people per ten million population; in Canada that figure is 9.7. In Europe, the UK, Australia, NZ, and Japan, that figure is under 4.[0] The problem with American policing is the police, not the fact that too many Americans 'lunge' for cell phones during police stops.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforc...

Re:Police are requesting data from smart speakers by WalterBright on Monday October 05, 2020 @02:36PM (#24690592)
It would be fair to compare that with statistics on how many cops are killed by civilians.

Also consider the wildly different statistics on gun possession in the populations.

Re:Police are requesting data from smart speakers by bobwall on Monday October 05, 2020 @09:57PM (#24694089)
Could be the problem in America is the drug problem, the glorification of the drug culture, the glorification of gangsters, the glorification of violence in sports and video games. I wouldn't put these issues squarely on the police officers in our country. When the number one hit record in your country is WAP (I'll let you look up that one), maybe the policing isn't your biggest problem.
Re:Police are requesting data from smart speakers by bleepblorp on Monday October 05, 2020 @11:04PM (#24694384)
To an extent. Ultimately, the US problem is insecure employment, bullshit jobs, income inequality, and multiple generations of compounding wealth inequality. People without opportunity turn to destructive behaviors, including glorifying gangsters because they are the only people they see in their neighborhoods who have any kind of wealth or self-determination.

Poor communities didn't turn into the kind of places you describe until after the jobs went away. I do not see this as a racial issue, however.

Poor communities in the US have broadly similar attitudes, and social problems, regardless of their ethnic identity. That problem hit urban African American communities many decades ago and is hitting rural white communities now.

People need money and personally meaningful work. Unless they have it, things go wrong. When people don't have it for generations, ghettos and violence are what you get.

Re:Police are requesting data from smart speakers by WalterBright on Monday October 05, 2020 @01:54PM (#24690176)
If you're a parent, please have a conversation about this with your kids. It's not something they should learn the hard way. I learned most of this when I was young and a middle aged white colleague at work had been quite the rebel as a youth, and had many encounters with the police. He gave me quite an education.
Re:Police are requesting data from smart speakers by A4ET8a8uTh0 on Monday October 05, 2020 @02:11PM (#24690346)
It is interesting. Looking back, my first 'training' was when my dad took me to the backyard, gave me an airsoft rifle and said a fair amount of things including you do not point unless you are ready to shoot ( and to be ready to accept the results ).

I never got that much into it, but the lesson stuck with me.

Re:Police are requesting data from smart speakers by mindslight on Monday October 05, 2020 @02:22PM (#24690455)
Obviously, one should comply with direct orders given by a cop. But this culture of hyper-submission to avoid being summarily shot has to end. The details of your proactive responses indicate fear, and the citizenry should not fear the police in a free society. If a cop cannot handle the stress of aggressing on ordinary citizens while remaining calm and purely defensive, they need to find a new job.
Re:Police are requesting data from smart speakers by WalterBright on Monday October 05, 2020 @02:44PM (#24690665)
I get told my advice is excessive all the time, even by cops. But I haven't been shot or arrested. I prefer to err on the side of caution so I can go home and sleep in my own bed that evening.

I'm also extremely careful with my table saw. You describe this as fear, I describe it more as risk minimization. It costs me nothing, I am not degrading myself, I simply avoid things that trigger fear in the cop.

My father served in combat in WW2 and the KW. He received a couple medals for bravery. But he always did everything he could to minimize any unnecessary risk. If it was a tough mission, he'd often be asked to lead because the other pilots knew he'd bring 'em back with fewer holes in their airplanes while still pasting the target.

Re:Police are requesting data from smart speakers by ClumsyPilot on Monday October 05, 2020 @04:08PM (#24691462)
Despite all tour precautions, you were still held at gunpoint - I think it's fair to say in most countries people have to take fewer precautions and do not experience being held at gunpoint.
Re:Police are requesting data from smart speakers by WalterBright on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @12:51AM (#24694793)
> Despite all tour precautions, you were still held at gunpoint

He came up behind me. I had no idea he was there.

Re:Police are requesting data from smart speakers by mindslight on Monday October 05, 2020 @02:53PM (#24690761)
Pragmatically, sure. But giving it out as advice perpetuates this culture where when a cop turns a traffic stop into a murder, the victim is scrutinized for eg not preemptively putting their hands on the steering wheel. In a free society, nothing less than deliberate disobedience warrants escalation.

Also if my table saw turned itself on and started walking at me while I was doing something else, I'd get a new one. And if all table saws tended to do this, I'd question whether I needed one at all.

Re:Police are requesting data from smart speakers by loco5niner on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @01:02PM (#24700003)
Unfortunately, cops have to take precautions at traffic stops, specifically because cops have been killed at traffic stops.

Some traffic stops happen because the cop sees something suspicious and decides to investigate/explore the situation. I'm grateful they do. It helps keep trouble at bay, to an extent.

> the victim is scrutinized for eg not preemptively putting their hands on the steering wheel.

A cop would be an idiot to not make judgements, and change his behavior based on the situation.

Re:Police are requesting data from smart speakers by mindslight on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @01:50PM (#24700493)
You haven't really said much besides the same one-sided narrative that frames the situation as cops just doing some inevitable job, ignoring the overbearing techniques they've developed that make the situation much more dangerous for all. It completely leaves out the perspective of the motorist, who finds themselves in a tense escalating situation that they did not ask for. In a society based around individual liberty and a government subservient to the People, this is unacceptable.
Re:Police are requesting data from smart speakers by loco5niner on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @04:32PM (#24702039)
> You haven't really said much

Well, between the 2 of us, we seem to have covered the 2 sides.