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Re:My friend starts her job today, after learning to program... by abdullahkhalids on Thursday October 01, 2020 @12:39PM (#24653045)
Let's break this down. Someone commits murder, and gets sent to prison for 13 years. They are out now. How do we deal with them?

1. If everyone says that they will no longer want to work with such a person, especially rich people, who can enforce that want, that person will end up working with poor people. The rich people are making a classist argument.

2. Worse, if that person, cannot even get bad jobs, they will be forced to commit more crimes in order to live. Now, the first crime might have been because they were a bad person, but the second crime is on the people who refuse to work with them.

3. What are other possibilities?

You get out of this conundrum by making prison about rehabilitation. Ensuring that people who come out are changed people who are not inclined to commit more crimes. Then you treat them like normal people. And hopefully, that world, while not perfect, will be better than this world.

Re:My friend starts her job today, after learning to program... by thelean12 on Thursday October 01, 2020 @01:16PM (#24653549)
After reading everyone's responses and responding myself, I've realized that I'm really caught up on the murder aspect.

I think my revised opinion is that if you intentionally murder someone without a damn good reason, you should spend life in prison. This can include second degree murder, which is often not life in prison in the US (And also happens to line up with the OP scenario).

Re:My friend starts her job today, after learning to program... by abdullahkhalids on Thursday October 01, 2020 @02:28PM (#24654453)
Happy that someone changed their mind. You asked a very good question. I don't think there are any easy answers to it. Crime hurts people and creates lots of strong emotions, so our instincts on what is best for society regarding crime are not very reliable.

A lot of conversation needs to happen on this, and we need to constantly reevaluate our positions.

Re:My friend starts her job today, after learning to program... by tomjen3 on Thursday October 01, 2020 @03:57PM (#24655531)
Suppose the person didn't commit murder, but had intentionally and violently raped a ten year old?

We can't make the punishment the same, or he would just murder her, yet I don't think such a person should every be let out.

Re:My friend starts her job today, after learning to program... by thelean12 on Thursday October 01, 2020 @04:04PM (#24655600)
I didn't want to dive down away from murder, because then I'll have to pick my "line". I'm not prepared to do that for various reasons. For example, I don't know the punishments for the crime you mentioned.

Murder is the "easiest" crime to use to make my arguments. And even then I have to specify stuff like "intentional without a damn good reason".

Re:My friend starts her job today, after learning to program... by crispyporkbites on Thursday October 01, 2020 @04:49PM (#24656015)
Every case is nuanced. You can’t say murder == life without screwing something up in the system. It’s not simple or trivial to solve.

Luckily many places around the world solve it differently so we can look at those systems and observe.

Re:My friend starts her job today, after learning to program... by Infinitesimus on Thursday October 01, 2020 @08:04PM (#24657472)
> We can't make the punishment the same, or he would just murder her, yet I don't think such a person should every be let out.

Do you believe people can change? Or perhaps more generally, what do you think the purpose of a prison should be when considering rehabilitation vs punishment?

Re:My friend starts her job today, after learning to program... by watwut on Thursday October 01, 2020 @04:58PM (#24656085)
I very honestly have less problem with murder then something like past harassment. Like, unless it was not random burst of violence, that must won't happen to me or someone I know. So that person generally working is lowering chance of recidivism for little cost to me.
Re:My friend starts her job today, after learning to program... by devthrowawy on Thursday October 01, 2020 @05:03PM (#24656120)
Sure, just not for murders. They can work outside.
Re:My friend starts her job today, after learning to program... by Tycho on Thursday October 01, 2020 @04:21PM (#24655769)
I suppose another possibility is that the market just deals with it. Through wages, employee retention, or 'danger money' for the non-convict colleagues.
Re:My friend starts her job today, after learning to program... by ivalm on Thursday October 01, 2020 @06:14PM (#24656721)
Market "dealing" with it means high recidivism. It's the tragedy of the commons. It might be in everyone's individual interest to not hire an ex-felon, but it leads to a worse outcome for everyone.