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Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by bartread on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @05:30PM (#24644152)
I'm appalled by this behaviour but also bemused. What's the motivation for spamming repositories just to get a t-shirt? I mean, are the t-shirts really that good?
Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by 908B64B197 on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @06:54PM (#24645000)
Judging by the names in the screenshots and linked github profiles it sounds like a lot of spammers are Indian students.

Thousands of students are all trying to get a low effort contribution in to have an extra line of "experience" on their resume and a T-Shirt from a western Silicon Valley company as signaling? Judging by the poor quality of the contributions, and the fact it's on GitHub, maybe folks studying IT?

That type of academic spam isn't new sadly [0].

[0] https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/41687/what-is-b...

Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by cvrjk on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @07:34PM (#24645383)
I am an Indian, and I've studied at an Indian university for my undergraduate degree, and I've witnessed spam like this everywhere. Not hacktoberfest, but I've been a part of it myself for some of the other things. Wish I had behaved better.

In most of these cases, it usually starts with someone really talented doing it with all the good intentions, and everyone else wanting to get in on that 'swag' and appear just as 'talented' and 'unique' amongst their peers. The freebies are mostly for 'show off'.

A few hours ago this link showed extremely low effort LeetCode/Programming Challenge problems and solutions aggregation repos created by us Indians (disproportionally more than any other country at the time I checked) with very silly open issues created & marked as 'hacktoberfest2020' (looks like some of them are gone now)[1].

But, from what I heard from my uni recently, things are improving and this year folks are trying their best to form groups to focus on meaningful contribution over spam.

Even after all that, unfortunately for us though, we'll still have bad actors, probably at the same percentage as any other country, but amplified due to our population and hyper-fixation with an unreal perception about most things we do.

[1] https://github.com/search?p=1&q=label%3Ahacktoberfest+state%....

Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by Thorentis on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @10:44PM (#24646744)
Why do Indian IT students seem disproportionately represented when it comes to things like this? It seems like there is a strong culture of "getting ahead at all costs". This is seen in shitty YouTube tutorials, blog posts, open source submissions, all the way down the very bottom of the barrel with call centre scammers. Care to explain for us?
Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by swyx on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @11:04PM (#24646873)
you're surprised motivated people, who lack privilege and dont know any better, resort to what they know and have been taught to do? who live on much less than you do and therefore can live off much lower value economic activity?

is it fair to place the blame squarely on them or is it better to recognize that the global system we are complicit in has created this tremendous waste of human potential?

Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by tjs8rj on Thursday October 01, 2020 @12:10AM (#24647269)
Your comment seems to exude a kind of inadvertent tone suggesting "they fault is not with them, but in their lack of civilization". In other words, it's likely racist.

By GDP per capita, India is where the US was at in the 1950s. Would we excuse this behavior in the 1950s West just because "they lack privilege, don't know any better, resort to what they know and have been taught to do..."? Of course not, because relative poverty is no excuse for unethical behavior.

Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by Xylakant on Thursday October 01, 2020 @01:56AM (#24647805)
The way I read the GP post it’s more “the way economics are structured strongly incentivized them to engage in this behavior.” which is more a statement about how pressure and incentives work on humans than anything racist. I doubt that people in the US would react differently to the same incentives.

Comparing the raw GDP of the US in the 1950s to India now is glossing over a lot of points. For example, GDP per capita does not capture the (in)equality of wealth distribution in a country. Or how that GDP ranks on a scale: The US in the 1950s was in a high, probably even the top position (I didn’t check exactly which) - India with the same GDP now is definitely not. That makes a huge difference in perception.

It’s easy to dismiss the status value of a brand name piece of clothing or any token that elevates your status if you’re already high up on the ladder.

None of that excuses the behavior in the sense that it makes it “ok”. But it contributes to the explanation of why such behavior clusters in specific communities.

For me, that I’m ahead, it’s easy to look down and say that this is unethical behavior, but it’s important to keep in mind that I’m applying my ethics from a privileged vantage point - and likely you’re doing so as well.

Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by triceratops on Thursday October 01, 2020 @02:10AM (#24647874)
> By GDP per capita, India is where the US was at in the 1950s.

In the 1950s the US's GDP per capita was the highest. Is that the case for India today?

> Would we excuse this behavior in the 1950s West

I mean the 1950s West was no bastion of ethical behavior. Wasn't that when the cigarette industry in the US started its decades-long campaign of misinformation, obfuscation, and false advertising to cover up the harmfulness of their products? And this was flagrantly unethical behavior by some very privileged people. This is without even getting into how women or minorities were treated.

> relative poverty is no excuse for unethical behavior.

One man's "unethical behavior" is another man's "playing by the letter of the rules, not the spirit". Spamming PRs for a free T-shirt is no way comparable to call center scams.

Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by swyx on Thursday October 01, 2020 @01:27AM (#24647648)
quite the contrary, i was calling it out in the person i was responding to. but now you have accused me of being racist, i am unable to continue the conversation. have a nice day.
Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by yipbub on Thursday October 01, 2020 @05:46AM (#24649141)
I am still divided on your opinion about it being economical, but it was definitely not racist.

Identifying a privilege gap is not racist. India is definitely not in the same place as 1950s America which was the post-WWII boom. Sometimes called the Golden Age of america.

Then again, we do have some cultural issues to overcome, and yes, a lot of the cultural issues are a result of a traumatic period spent under the boot of the colonizers.

That being said, blame is not useful, the people responsible are dead, and hopefully we can mature as a culture. I see lots to be hopeful about, but lots to be fearful about too. The transition of power from colonials to our republic was botched, and now we're stuck with a broken political machine, and the powerful are trying to break it further.

Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by tjs8rj on Friday October 02, 2020 @09:54AM (#24662599)
I was very deliberate in avoiding calling you racist. I said explicitly and deliberately that your comment (not "you") seemed (not "certainly was") inadvertently (not "intentionally") racist.
Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by higerordermap on Thursday October 01, 2020 @02:07AM (#24647857)
Lack of ethics or interest in the subject, luring to the ways of gaming the system - I'd say this reputation is well deserved, as someone who studies here.
Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by cutemonster on Thursday October 01, 2020 @07:07PM (#24657119)
> the global system we are complicit in has created this tremendous waste of human potential?

Thanks for writing -- I like that way of thinking about spammers etc -- that they could have been doing something meaningful instead, if the world and society made more sense

Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by zabil on Thursday October 01, 2020 @11:45AM (#24652246)
> Thousands of students are all trying to get a low effort contribution in to have an extra line of "experience" on their resume and a T-Shirt from a western Silicon Valley company as signaling? Judging by the poor quality of the contributions, and the fact it's on GitHub, maybe folks studying IT?

Well, not exactly. There are a lot of people in India who are very passionate about open source and who actively try to get others to participate. So they organise events teach others how fork a repo and submit PR's. Batch-mates are either forced or join after seeing the enthusiasm. Unfortunately, these are not moderated and things go downhill soon where a PR is sent for the sake of it.

Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by easytiger on Thursday October 01, 2020 @06:21AM (#24649323)
I've had multiple examples of "spam" from Indian and Chinese students who scraped an email from GitHub repos, wanting endorsement or to fill questionnaires or somesuch.
Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by mumblemumble on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @05:41PM (#24644278)
It's probably less effort to get this t-shirt than it is to get achievement badges or hats or whatever for many video games, and this nets you an actual physical achievement badge.
Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by bartread on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @06:09PM (#24644596)
What you're saying makes perfect sense - no complaint or disagreement from me - but I'm still struggling to wrap my mind around this because when all's said and done we're still talking about a vendor t-shirt, and how cool can that really be?

If it does motivate people and they like them, then fine: I guess it's just different strokes for different folks.

Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by inetknght on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @06:37PM (#24644854)
> different strokes for different folks.

It pretty much boils down to this. Not only are vendor t-shirts actually a physical item but they are also often uniquely designed; many vendors only provide certain designs for certain events. So they really become a badge of honor and can gain in emotional value: "been there, got the t-shirt..."

Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by kortilla on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @06:20PM (#24644701)
People actually pay extra money for t-shirts that have specific brand names on them and entire businesses are built around that. It shouldn’t be surprising to you that there are people that want particular shirts.
Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by bartread on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @06:58PM (#24645058)
True, but Ralph Lauren's a lot more stylish than Digital Ocean (not that I wear a lot of either of them!).
Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by ObsoleteNerd on Thursday October 01, 2020 @07:17AM (#24649607)
For a nerd? Probably not.
Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by jkingsbery on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @06:01PM (#24644521)
It's kind of like that episode of Pinky and the Brain where they finally are able to take over the Earth by convincing everyone who moves to a paper mache copy of the Earth a free t-shirt. People love free t-shirts.
Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by macspoofing on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @05:50PM (#24644400)
Ever visit a booth at a conference or trade-show where they give out t-shirts? Pandemonium!
Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by bartread on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @07:00PM (#24645071)
I've worked a bunch of them back in the day and they are indeed a feeding frenzy. Can be a lot of fun though.
Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by xwdv on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @06:23PM (#24644735)
The shirt is a form of signaling and once you wear it in the right circles you’re in as one of the cool kids.
Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by newen on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @05:43PM (#24644297)
You might wait, what, a 10 person line to get a free t-shirt? Making 5 “corrected typo” commits is probably equivalent to that effort and looks like 5 is enough to get past a spam tag.
Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by bartread on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @06:07PM (#24644581)
I really wouldn't. I'm not a minimalist by any means but I've been decluttering for a while and am certainly long past the point where I'll tolerate having possessions that I don't want. Maybe this is a privileged point of view but, as with swag in general, most vendor t-shirts are honestly just tat.
Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by kortilla on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @06:22PM (#24644720)
> Maybe this is a privileged point of view

It is. T-shirts are wear items and getting a free one that looks decent is one less that you’ll have to buy.

Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by filmgirlcw on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @05:44PM (#24644311)
You would be surprised by the stuff people do for free swag. I don’t get it either, but I’ve seen first hand how hard people go for that sort of stuff.

It’s a shame it has led to people spamming repos, however.

Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by dilyevsky on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @05:44PM (#24644323)
There are a ton of automated trivial pr spammers out there that aren’t even in it for a t-shirt. Maybe it’s vanity or just wanting to see the world burn ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by cpach on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @05:43PM (#24644293)
Maybe some people feel that these t-shirts signals street cred?
Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by SwiftyBug on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @05:48PM (#24644365)
Definitely. I've always wanted a cool Hacktober Fest t-shirt like the ones my co-workers have. But I certainly wouldn't spam open source projects just to get one.
Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by stjohnswarts on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @08:03PM (#24645638)
You never did anything stupid and superfluous as a youth?
Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by toomuchtodo on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @05:38PM (#24644242)
Participation trophies come in many forms.
Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by pengaru on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @05:46PM (#24644346)
In my experience the average American goes into a leave nothing behind mode whenever baited with Free.

Just look at the kind of mayhem Black Friday precipitates, and that's not even free - just a promise of exceptional discounts.

The comedian Doug Stanhope has an amusing bit about free healthcare and how wastefully it would be consumed by Americans conditioned to maximally abuse anything offered free of charge.

Edit: I don't mean to suggest Americans have a monopoly on this sort of behavior, it's just the country/culture I'm by far most familiar with.

Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by dmurray on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @05:55PM (#24644465)
The spammers appear to be overwhelmingly Indian, based on the usernames in the screenshots. Which is somehow unsurprising to me (there are 1.5 billion of them, after all).
Re:DigitalOcean's Hacktoberfest Is Hurting Open Source by vlunkr on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @05:49PM (#24644384)
Non-Americans on the other hand hate free stuff.