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Re:Dual-flush toilets 'wasting more water than they save' by ChuckMcM on Tuesday September 29, 2020 @11:43PM (#24635501)
This is a common misunderstanding of dual flush toilets. I don't know if you missed it, but the article was concerned with them leaking as opposed to their designed operation, which in fact does save water.

They "work" because the most common form of evacuation for humans is urination. And that is easily cleared with a lower volume of water. The math is that even if you have to flush three times after you poop to get everything gone, you've saved water because most of the time you only peed and that took less water than it did before. The math checks out.

That said, washing is a different story. That is because washing is a chemical process, not a mechanical one. Regulation has simultaneously cut phosphates[1] (EDIT: per wikipedia the phosphates chelates the water which allows the detergent to be more effective) and reduced water (which is required for chemical action) and as a result the effectiveness of washing units (dishwashers and clothes washers) has in some cases stopped being effective.

Regulation itself has become less effective (in my opinion) because it continues to attack the symptom and not the problem. For example, it would have been just as effective to upgrade waste water treatment plants to remove all phosphates rather than ban them from detergents, however that solution creates a tax burden which can be resisted by a population whereas restricting the sale of products the consumer wants cannot be countered by the consumers directly.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphates_in_detergent

Re:Dual-flush toilets 'wasting more water than they save' by ggcdn on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @12:46AM (#24635765)
Good points, it makes you wonder how many day to day things could have vastly improved user experience if government efforts were targeted at underlying problems instead of symptoms (borrowing your definitions of those two things).

But plastics recycling comes to mind as a bit of a counter example, where all the effort has been put on dealing with the end problem, when perhaps they should be targeting the symptom (regulating unnecessary plastics and packaging, and taxing the producers instead of the consumers). Currently plastic producers have incentive to generate more plastics, and consumers are left trying to deal with the waste.

Re:Dual-flush toilets 'wasting more water than they save' by ChuckMcM on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @12:51AM (#24635786)
Absolutely agree. If the actual cost to use plastic packaging was related to the externalized costs of plastic disposal it would immediately cause change and innovation in packaging.
Re:Dual-flush toilets 'wasting more water than they save' by nobodyandproud on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @12:32PM (#24640568)
Finally!

I’ve said this for years. It’s always been ignored or downvotes to oblivion, but maybe it’s finally catching on?

It’s not an end-consumer problem, because the further down the manufacturing and delivery chain you go the more difficult it becomes to recycle.

Re:Dual-flush toilets 'wasting more water than they save' by dundercoder on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @01:01AM (#24635834)
I used to work for a chemical plant that made their own detergent. sodium tripolyphosphate is where it’s at for clean dishes.
Re:Dual-flush toilets 'wasting more water than they save' by LargoLasskhyfv on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @08:57PM (#24646052)
I've read somewhere that it can create problems for the canalization because more buildups of "fat-balls" because of less water. OTOH, that shouldn't be the case when it leaks, so "shrug"?
Re:Dual-flush toilets 'wasting more water than they save' by nobodyandproud on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @12:36PM (#24640603)
Right, but what’s the probability of a leak? And average amount of water lost, before it’s repaired?

A complex mechanical product is more likely to have problems, which is something that can’t be ignored.