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Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by perl4ever on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:39PM (#24602376)
There is an aspect of seeming illogic I want to call out here. Maybe it's just my lack of understanding.

Assuming the IRS is underfunded, saying they focus on low income people as a consequence, when it would be more lucrative to target high earners, makes no sense. The claims could all be true, but they don't appear to be connected.

Why would the total amount of funding force the IRS to spend less on individual cases? An alternative hypothesis might be that it actually is more cost effective to target people with less money, for instance, people paid mainly in cash tips, but I don't have any idea if that is plausible, I'm just saying the narrative doesn't make sense to me.

In general, targeting rich people seems obvious because rich people "have the money", but mathematically, it depends on how many there are when you multiply it out.

Anyway, I am very open to the idea that the IRS is being stupid and counterproductive, or politically avoiding prosecuting the rich, but I think it raises the question of "why" that is not answered by saying "underfunding". They still have funding to go after one or more high earners, right, so the total amount is irrelevant if it's taken as a given.

Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by ac29 on Saturday September 26, 2020 @06:52PM (#24602794)
The article linked in the parent comment explains it. Audits of lower income people are largely automated - a letter is generated and sent in the mail. Auditing higher income people takes paid investigators, lawyers and time. They are both considered "audits", but its not the same procedure.
Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by jdhn on Saturday September 26, 2020 @07:14PM (#24602884)
By this logic, they should be focusing on higher income people if audits of lower income people are automated and therefore require drastically less manpower.
Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by Moto7451 on Saturday September 26, 2020 @07:50PM (#24603071)
The cost of sending the letters is a lot less than bringing a lawyer into court. Low income individuals just pay up. If it costs pennies to send and you make $100, you’re going to keep optimizing that. If you lack the funding to take down a hedge fund manager, you’re not going to bother trying.

The IRS also sends the letters to people that they owe money. This year my accountant didn’t realize I was owed a credit. The IRS mailed me a check and a letter explaining why they adjusted my return and issued the credit.

Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by zxcmx on Saturday September 26, 2020 @08:59PM (#24603374)
Systemically, threatening letters, while practically free for the government to send - cause a lot of stress for people. Both those who owe tax and those who have to prove they don't.

It's hard to know where to draw the line but you could reasonably argue that chasing low income people for small amounts is net negative societal utility, even when you get them to pay up.

Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by Moto7451 on Sunday September 27, 2020 @12:49AM (#24604298)
I completely agree. I was pretty terrified until I opened the letter and saw a check. I assumed it was an audit.

The thing that is often ignored, unknown, or forgotten, is that it doesn’t have to work this way. Some countries send you an end of year report on how much they collected from you and you can audit them as well. It’s less laborious than our system. I am blissfully unaware of the complications of such a system but I’d like to think that it works better. I’d like to think the people of the IRS would prefer that too.

Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by LorenPechtel on Sunday September 27, 2020 @05:02PM (#24610112)
The problem with this approach is that if you actually have income they don't see they've basically told you they don't know about it and aren't likely to catch you if you don't tell them.
Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by f2000 on Sunday September 27, 2020 @02:40AM (#24604694)
I hate to get any sort of "thin" envelope from the IRS..
Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by m-p-3 on Saturday September 26, 2020 @11:48PM (#24604096)
No wonder there is an increasing income inequality of the middle-class and below when they can't catch a break while the rich are mostly left unimpeded with tax evasion.
Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by naniwaduni on Saturday September 26, 2020 @11:38PM (#24604049)
Humans are notoriously good at ignoring externalities when they're not held to account for them.
Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by cortesoft on Saturday September 26, 2020 @11:48PM (#24604098)
'Cost effectiveness' doesn't help them since they don't get to use the money they collect in their own budget.

They can't choose to spend more, knowing they will make it back.... they don't have the money to invest in going after rich tax payers. They can only spend the budget they are given, and that isn't enough to go after rich people, even if it would bring more money in.

Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by ethbr0 on Sunday September 27, 2020 @12:50AM (#24604300)
Does anyone have a citation for this?

I expected this was a big reason for the seemingly illogical behavior, but am curious how it shakes out. Where does money they recover go?

It would seem to make sense to seed a high income investigative unit, checked by the courts, and then allow them to retain a substantial portion of their recoveries to self-fund.

Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by bobthepanda on Sunday September 27, 2020 @03:35AM (#24604934)
IRS is funded out of the general fund by Congress, which is also where the money the IRS finds goes.

> It would seem to make sense to seed a high income investigative unit, checked by the courts, and then allow them to retain a substantial portion of their recoveries to self-fund.

For an example of how this could go horribly, horribly wrong, look at police use of civil forfeiture. https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/police-abused-civil-fo...

Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by ethbr0 on Sunday September 27, 2020 @04:12PM (#24609795)
>> checked by the courts

If you limited their targets to high net worth individuals, I daresay they'd be able to afford a robust (and as fair as we can make it) defense.

Unlike the abuses in civil forfeiture, where the primary targets tend to be without legal recourse.

Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by bobthepanda on Monday September 28, 2020 @05:08AM (#24614592)
Limiting scope sounds nice in theory but there is always scope creep when you throw greed into the equation. And generally speaking the courts are not designed to be a fast resolution to anything.
Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by ethbr0 on Monday September 28, 2020 @11:24PM (#24623917)
That's why you build a system of adversarial justice: enforcement vs defense. Same as we feel is good enough to use elsewhere.

And a fast resolution doesn't seem required in this case. High net worth individuals don't seem like they'd be impacted by {potential tax bill and penalties} of their assets being frozen for multiple years while a case plays out. Relative to their total assets, any tax bill is going to be manageable.

The only problems actually preventing the IRS from conducting this enforcement are (1) political cover from direct Congressional interference & (2) lack of resources due to general defunding by Congress.

Given a choice between the dangers of establishing a self-funding high net worth tax prosecution arm and not prosecuting those individuals, I feel the greater risk to democracy is the later.

Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by mod on Sunday September 27, 2020 @02:02AM (#24604563)
> https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040v.pdf

"Make your check or money order payable to “United States Treasury.” "

That's, you know, the federal government. Not the department called the IRS. The IRS gets a budgeted amount of funds.

Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by clusterfish on Saturday September 26, 2020 @06:14PM (#24602596)
Maybe IRS just knows that they're being underfunded precisely to stop them from auditing Congress's rich sponsors, so they proactively self-censor their audits to prevent further cuts?
Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by EGreg on Saturday September 26, 2020 @09:49PM (#24603558)
Pretty much this.

I don’t understand how Republicans can argue cutting funding to the IRS will save the government’s spending. Instead their goal is to make the tax base richer by cutting taxes of the rich. Many of them are all about cutting taxes to the rich and corporations, doubling down on the trickle down. They even blocked payroll tax cuts to the lower and middle class:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-republicans-def...

Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by x86_64Ubuntu on Saturday September 26, 2020 @09:08PM (#24603406)
It's because the costs for going after well-funded and well-defended tax cheats is higher than going after middle and lower income people who can't defend themselves. This has been known since George Bush II's tenure.
Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by refurb on Saturday September 26, 2020 @10:50PM (#24603827)
The IRS selects which returns to audit based in part on a statistical formula that identifies returns most likely to be at risk of having an error

So yes, you're correct. Analyzing whether or not someone is eligible for EITC (those making less than ~$50,000) can be automated and if flagged, a letter sent telling them they aren't eligible or asking for more information.

[1]https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-irs-aud...

Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by content_sesh on Saturday September 26, 2020 @06:30PM (#24602690)
Wealthy people have the resources to defend themselves in court. If you live paycheck to paycheck, you generally cannot afford lawyer fees, taking time off work for court appearances, or the risk of actually losing a case, or the probably million other things I'm not thinking about right now. It is almost always easier to go after the poor than it is to go after the rich and powerful.
Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by jcrawfordor on Saturday September 26, 2020 @11:09PM (#24603916)
I also read an article on this a while ago that said that at least informally, the metrics changed in the IRS - the practice went from evaluating auditors based on the dollar value they recovered to evaluating auditors based on the number of files they opened and closed. So of course now the auditors focus on the small cases because they're quick and easy, and they don't want to have to explain to a performance management system why they closed fewer cases than their coworkers.
Re:The IRS Sets a Trap for Cryptocurrency Tax Cheats by darawk on Saturday September 26, 2020 @06:59PM (#24602820)
Audits of the rich are not economical for the IRS. Audits of the poor are extremely cost efficient, because they can be automated, and because they don't fight back.