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Re:The Downside of "Demo Day" by pg on Monday April 18, 2011 @01:45PM (#2459926)
This guy's idea of what happens at a Demo Day is so far removed from reality. E.g.

investors walk around committing $100K checks to their “favorites.”

All that happens is they exchange contact info. The investor will want to meet (often multiple times) before writing the check, and the founders will meanwhile check up on the investor.

This too is completely false:

with the acceptance of outside capital they are making a 3-5 year life commitment

Neither founders nor investors believe there is any commitment to keep working on the startup any longer than the investors' money lasts. In fact, investors have even lower expectations than that. I've seen several startups blow up while they still had some investor money left, and they just returned what was left and there were no hard feelings.

And as for this piece of advice

If I were running an accelerator I would be brutally honest and advise the bottom 25-50% of their classes not to move forward with financing post-demo day

the problem is, we don't know that early who the big successes are going to be. E.g. Greplin now looks like one of the top startups in their batch, but after Demo Day they would probably have seemed in the bottom half. They were down to one founder, and a new idea he'd come up with 2 days before DDay which at that stage consisted of nothing more than mockups.

Re:The Downside of "Demo Day" by jordancooper on Monday April 18, 2011 @02:23PM (#2460068)
PG, it's not just YC that I'm talking about, it's lots of other accelerators...but i do have multiple concrete datapoints from investors who committed on the spot across accelerators post demoday...

re: 3-5 yr commitments: that's how long it takes to exit a company. As a founder, I view the acceptance of outside capital as a commitment to return their investment. emotionally, i think you are signing up for the long hall when you accept investment

re: Greplin, i agree, perfect example of someone who actually didn't try to raise a big seed round at demo day, but capitalized over time after demo day, once he was more sure of what he was doing...i think that's the model to follow, not just raise because it's demo day, right?

Re:The Downside of "Demo Day" by pg on Monday April 18, 2011 @08:21PM (#2461238)
Committing on the spot can happen, but it's the exception, and a small one. I'd be surprised if it accounted for 5% of investments out of DDay. So it's misleading to describe DDay as if that was how things worked.

It was not a tactical choice by Greplin not to raise a large round after DDay. No one would give them one. But your advice for me was not to tell people only to raise small amounts. I often do that. You said I should tell people to quit, which would be a mistake, because I don't know yet which ones I should be telling to quit.

Re:The Downside of "Demo Day" by robg on Monday April 18, 2011 @09:00PM (#2461307)
How often have you told groups to quit, even one year later?
Re:The Downside of "Demo Day" by pg on Monday April 18, 2011 @09:05PM (#2461316)
Dozens of times, I would guess, because dozens of startups we've funded have given up, and usually they consult me first.
Re:The Downside of "Demo Day" by robg on Monday April 18, 2011 @09:15PM (#2461336)
Which is the first go: Money or motivation?
Re:The Downside of "Demo Day" by pg on Tuesday April 19, 2011 @02:32AM (#2461855)
Usually money. A startup can change what it's working on, so as long as there's money left, they can simply restart if an idea seems hopeless.

When motivation goes first, it's usually because the founders had a falling out.

Re:The Downside of "Demo Day" by pclark on Tuesday April 19, 2011 @07:54AM (#2462325)
What is the typical circumstance where you tell the founders to quit?
Re:The Downside of "Demo Day" by pg on Tuesday April 19, 2011 @01:54PM (#2463468)
When they're out of money and they say they want to.
Re:The Downside of "Demo Day" by jordancooper on Monday April 18, 2011 @10:44PM (#2461479)
hey, i just want to be clear. i wasn't writing that post to you. I've been to demo days from a bunch of accelerators, so i'm drawing on datasets beyond just YC and YC Dday...but in your case, i'm not suggesting that you tell people to quit, but i do think there should be a group who are told "you're not there yet, you shouldn't try to raise capital now" or something like that. Let them work through and get to a point where they are confident in their businesses before they raise, etc...
Re:The Downside of "Demo Day" by shasta on Monday April 18, 2011 @02:36PM (#2460099)
(FYI typo fix: replace 'diluting' with 'deluding the' in your article)
Re:The Downside of "Demo Day" by macrael on Monday April 18, 2011 @06:24PM (#2460990)
(also, is is "long haul" not "long hall")
Re:The Downside of "Demo Day" by jordancooper on Monday April 18, 2011 @02:38PM (#2460105)
thanks :)
Re:The Downside of "Demo Day" by bhousel on Monday April 18, 2011 @02:57PM (#2460178)
Given the timing of the post, I'm assuming Jordan is talking more about Techstars NYC demo day.
Re:The Downside of "Demo Day" by jordancooper on Monday April 18, 2011 @03:01PM (#2460190)
hey...no specific program...almost all of them follow the same format (which i think is largely influenced by the success of YC)
Re:The Downside of "Demo Day" by mkrecny on Monday April 18, 2011 @08:46PM (#2461282)
The format of TechStars is pretty different from YC.
Re:The Downside of "Demo Day" by seats on Monday April 18, 2011 @01:52PM (#2459958)
What's your take on his accusation of funding the bottom 25-50% that should really be cut and regroup?

EDIT: You edited in a reply to that while I was commenting. I can agree you don't know who the winners are going to be, but more money = more commitment to an idea, so you'd think it still is an incentive for some to pursue something they shouldn't for longer than they should.

Re:The Downside of "Demo Day" by billswift on Monday April 18, 2011 @03:16PM (#2460258)
>incentive for some to pursue something they shouldn't for longer than they should.

Looks like a good example of hindsight bias. If they have resources, and still think it's a good idea, why shouldn't they go for it? If they knew ahead of time that something else would be better, they would already be going for that instead.

Re:The Downside of "Demo Day" by seats on Monday April 18, 2011 @06:28PM (#2461010)
Maybe, but if I were going to label a bias in this situation, it would either be confirmation bias or halo effect.

Confirmation bias-

Let's say you are in an incubator working on idea that deep down you just feel iffy about. All of the sudden on demo day someone wants to give you 100s of k to take it further. Your mind will start to contort itself all kinds of ways to convince you that the idea is great and you should take the money.

Halo effect-

Needs no real explanation. Success of past classes/graduates is going to put the thumb on the scale when investors size you up, whether they admit it (which would be better for them) or not.

Combine the two and I think that more money is being transacted and more poor ideas being worked on than if you were to somehow explicitly control for both of these biases. Also, examples like Greplin may just be exceptions that prove the rule. I'd wager that it's pretty clear by demo day which ideas are top 10% ideas and which ones are bottom 10%. The middle might be fudge ground, but there are known winners and losers at that point.