News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by DiogenesKynikos on Friday September 25, 2020 @05:11AM (#24588012)
To summarize:

* The prosecution claimed that Assange had not been caught with a razor. The reason for denying this is that hiding a razor suggests Assange might be thinking of suicide.

* The defense pointed out that an official report from the prison confirmed that Assange had hidden a razor in his cell. The prosecution is surely aware of this report. In plain English, the prosecution lied to the court. The judge refuses to consider the prison report, however, because it is new evidence.

* Defense claims that Assange was moved to the healthcare ward because of suicidal thoughts. The prosecution claims that he was moved there so that he could be put in isolation, so that the prison would not be embarrassed by more leaked photos of Assange. In other words, the official line is that the prison concocted false medical pretenses to put Assange in solitary confinement.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by TheUndead96 on Friday September 25, 2020 @05:26AM (#24588109)
Either they are planning to kill him and frame it as a suicide, or his life has been made so miserable that suicide appears to be an escape. Both are awful to consider.

I'm not informed enough to know whether any of the leaks he facilitated lead to the unnecessary harm of innocent people, but I deeply respect his dedication to the truth. As far as I know he has not outed his sources. We should aspire to be as brave as the likes of Assange and Snowden.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by acomjean on Friday September 25, 2020 @07:52AM (#24588819)
Well some argue his dump of emails coordinated with a now pardoned US political operative helped push one candidate over another.

It had a pretty negative impact on many lives. Somewhat ironically hurting the concept of “truth” in politics.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by notaround1111 on Friday September 25, 2020 @08:49AM (#24589134)
If you like arresting your political adversaries I'd recommending moving to a country like Belarus. I hear they also like disappearing journalists who expose truth regardless of the political inconvenience.

ends-justifying-the-means thinking leads to very ugly things.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by mlthoughts2018 on Friday September 25, 2020 @08:49AM (#24589133)
You should be upset with the DNC members whose behavior was exposed by the emails. Those DNC members destabilized the election with their behavior, not Assange.

Assange reported it.

You seem to have the blame completely reversed. Assange did not perpetrate behavior that destabilized an election or facilitated a Trump win, not one bit. Democrat party leaders did that and have only themselves to blame.

Assange reported it.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by joshuamorton on Friday September 25, 2020 @05:14PM (#24594180)
Refusing to leak information about the republican campaign is unfair.

Working with Trump campaign is destabilizing. Both of those are true, factual statements. Wikileaks did both.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by mlthoughts2018 on Friday September 25, 2020 @11:04PM (#24596093)
Wikileaks did neither.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by joshuamorton on Saturday September 26, 2020 @07:18AM (#24597927)
That's contrary to the findings of the special council, who found that wikileaks did communicate and possibly coordinate with the Trump campaign.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by mlthoughts2018 on Saturday September 26, 2020 @10:25AM (#24599081)
It is not contrary. There are allegations of coordinating with the Trump campaign, but there was no proof and ultimately no charges.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by joshuamorton on Saturday September 26, 2020 @02:55PM (#24601242)
Ultimately no charges yes, but not because there was no proof of wikileaks working with the Trump campaign.

Your can argue that the acts weekend criminal or they were not charged for political reasons, but either way they did happen, and were coordination with the campaign.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by hackinthebochs on Friday September 25, 2020 @11:26AM (#24590810)
There was no behavior uncovered by the emails that were unfair or destabilizing. However, reporting of the emails frame them as such. It was the false or out-of-context reporting that was destabilizing. But this was the intent from the start. It turns out information without context is just as bad as outright fabrications.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by mlthoughts2018 on Friday September 25, 2020 @01:38PM (#24592162)
> “ There was no behavior uncovered by the emails that were unfair or destabilizing.“

Yes there was.

> “ It was the false or out-of-context reporting that was destabilizing.“

No it was not.

> “ But this was the intent from the start.”

No it was not.

> “ It turns out information without context is just as bad as outright fabrications.”

This statement has no relationship with the leaked DNC emails.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by hackinthebochs on Friday September 25, 2020 @09:22PM (#24595660)
Of course misrepresentation was the intent, since Russia hacked the DNC emails and leaked them for political gain.

>This statement has no relationship with the leaked DNC emails.

Utter nonsense. Perhaps you can do better than assertions?

Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by mlthoughts2018 on Friday September 25, 2020 @10:56PM (#24596060)
Assange did not reveal a source for the leaked emails, and in fact claims the source is not Russian,

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/julian-as...

Whether hackers intended to disrupt an election or not, the behavior described in the emails is still the fault of those DNC members who perpetrated those actions.

You’re acting like if they had kept the manipulation of the Democratic primary a secret, we’d be better off, and that by revealing it (as opposed to perpetrating it in the first place) publishers like Assange caused harm - which is ridiculous.

The behavior itself - the content of what was published - caused harm because it was dishonest, manipulative, harmful behavior. The publisher did not cause harm by describing someone else’s harmful behavior. “Russian hackers” did not cause harm by taking possession of documents that proved the harmful behavior of others.

It’s like if a sitting president referred to dead service men and women as “losers” and “suckers” you somehow think a newspaper causes harm by publishing that truth, because it might whip up the electorate, and you are blind to the fact that it’s not the newspaper’s choice to publish that is doing anything or causing anything. The blame lies squarely with the person who actually perpetrated the published behaviors - like the president calling fallen soldiers losers and suckers.

Your moral compass on this is completely haywire.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by hackinthebochs on Saturday September 26, 2020 @12:30PM (#24599988)
>Assange did not reveal a source for the leaked emails, and in fact claims the source is not Russian,

Assange's denials about Russia's involvement aren't credible on its face. The question is whether Russia hacked the DNC emails that Assange published. Assange fundamentally has no knowledge of the origin of the emails as the final stop in potentially multi-person hand off, unless he was involved in the hacking.

We also have multiple intelligence agencies, foreign and domestic, that have confirmed the source of the hack. Not to mention the context of the election, Trumps close ties with Russia and Russian agents, and the broad and multifaceted attempts at hacking the election attributed to Russia (disinformation farms, hacking state election networks), it is far past the point of reasonable to defend the theory that Russia didn't hack the DNC.

>You’re acting like if they had kept the manipulation of the Democratic primary a secret

But there was no manipulation. There were things that could be framed as manipulation, which people did, and that caused unfair damage to the Democrats and to democracy. It's like if there were two sellers of sausages and one of them had their sausage-making process recorded and leaked online. The other sausage maker goes "see their sausages are disgusting, buy ours instead!" all the while their sausages are made in the exact same way. It is unbalanced transparency that is inherently manipulative. It is a self-serving lie to pretend otherwise.

>It’s like if a sitting president referred to dead service men and women as “losers” and “suckers” you somehow think a newspaper causes harm by publishing that truth

No, its not like that. A sitting president's words are a valid source of news. The internal machinations of a private organization are not a valid source of news unless wrongdoing is documented. But no such wrongdoing was documented. It was all gossip and fodder for misrepresentation.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by throwawaythekey on Friday September 25, 2020 @12:03PM (#24591226)
Without going into murkier territories like bias

Unfair - debate questions were leaked to Hillary ahead of time.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/donna-brazile-hillary...

Destabilizing - the Hillary campaign promoted Trump as a candidate.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/hillary-clin...

Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by hackinthebochs on Friday September 25, 2020 @09:20PM (#24595652)
>Unfair - debate questions were leaked to Hillary ahead of time.

Brazile on leaking debate questions[1]:

>My job was to make all our Democratic candidates look good, and I worked closely with both campaigns to make that happen.

Tad Devine, senior aid to Bernie's campaign on the debate questions leak[2]:

>She would get in touch all the time for guidance, so I can verify her recollection on this issue

So the question of whether the leak was "unfair to Bernie" is not established. The fact that Bernie never responded critically of the leak suggests Brazile's actions weren't unusual for either side. But this just underscores the fact that a lack of context and selective leaking allows one to present a false narrative.

>Destabilizing - the Hillary campaign promoted Trump as a candidate.

Promoting Trump was certainly a miscalculation. But it was not at all "destabilizing" in the sense the OP meant.

[1] https://time.com/4705515/donna-brazile-russia-emails-clinton...

[2] https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/la-na-trailguide...

Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by throwawaythekey on Saturday September 26, 2020 @12:18AM (#24596379)
> So the question of whether the leak was "unfair to Bernie" is not established

Even if the questions were being leaked to ALL candidates (no solid proof exists) it is deceiving the public who believe the the candidates to have no forward knowledge of the questions. Or alternatively, it's unfair to the republicans who don't have advance knowledge of questions in their own debates and are unable to appear as clever on their feet as their counterparts. Or it's a disadvantage to candidates that are able to better think on their feet, and don't need to prepare, although you could argue that they were already unfairly advantaged.

> Promoting Trump was certainly a miscalculation. But it was not at all "destabilizing" in the sense the OP meant.

I'm not sure what the OP meant by destabilizing, but it's clear that Trump triumphing did have destabilizing effects on US politics. If you mean destabilizing in terms of intra-party politics, then I would be happy to take your word for it but argue that you're being overly narrow.

Full disclosure - I'm probable biased in being from outside the US, not having any skin in the election outcome, and just enjoying the transparency provided. From the outside, at least to me, it looks like a win for democracy. Hopefully future candidates play above board more often because they realize they have higher chances of being exposed in the modern world.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by mlthoughts2018 on Friday September 25, 2020 @01:40PM (#24592184)
It’s a shame to see tribalistic downvoting on this. It’s just stating facts that render the parent comment fundamentally inaccurate. There’s nothing to downvote, there’s no possible angle of interpretation or disagreement.

Downvoting this is equivalent to saying “Assange is bad no matter what the facts or evidence shows.”

Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by mhh__ on Friday September 25, 2020 @05:57AM (#24588279)
Based on currently available information I view snowden on a different tier to assange.

Assange has always been a political activist as well as whatever else he is, whereas Snowden is much less active. The relations wikileaks had with the Trump campaign and GRU do make me somewhat less sympathetic with him.

On a smaller scale wikileaks have on multiple occasions published lists containing innocent bystanders's full contact and card details - this is clearly a statement in and of itself (not Redacting the details of someone who made a $50 donation to the democrats is wrong and meditated)

Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by TheUndead96 on Friday September 25, 2020 @06:23AM (#24588378)
That's a good point, I had not thought of it in those terms. Snowden was much more "I saw something wrong and I did something about it".
Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by srtjstjsj on Friday September 25, 2020 @07:41AM (#24588756)
Assange built an organization dedicated to uncovering wrong things.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by FireBeyond on Friday September 25, 2020 @01:56PM (#24592377)
He did. And somewhere along the line, he also realized, "How can I use this organization to _also_ support my ideologies?"
Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by mhh__ on Friday September 25, 2020 @05:53AM (#24588256)
If they didn't enter the prison report into evidence then surely they've just shot themselves in the foot?
Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by gpm on Friday September 25, 2020 @07:08AM (#24588598)
My vague understanding is that you are allowed to enter evidence to impeach someone (show that they are lying) at any time, most notably right after they lied.

I cound be wrong, but this trial has not inspired confidence in the judge actually following the law so I'm not taking the court ruling otherwise as the strong evidence that I normally would.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by matthewheath on Friday September 25, 2020 @07:39AM (#24588744)
> My vague understanding is that you are allowed to enter evidence to impeach someone (show that they are lying) at any time, most notably right after they lied.

In England and Wales, yeah, as long as the other rules are met (it's of value, relevant, not extremely prejudicial to the defendant, not hearsay, etc.)

You wouldn't impeach them though. It could be perjury if they lied under oath, but otherwise it would just be standard discrediting of a given person.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by gpm on Friday September 25, 2020 @12:48PM (#24591691)
For some reason calling into question the credibility of a witness is generally called impeaching them in common law... never figured out why. Why isn't that the right term here?
Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by luckylion on Friday September 25, 2020 @06:25AM (#24588386)
I have no clue about the UK, but are their laws such that state attorney are allowed to actively lie to a judge and make false statements?
Re:Assange Hearing Day 17 by matthewheath on Friday September 25, 2020 @07:32AM (#24588705)
In the UK, all lawyers have an overriding duty to the court. This means they must not mislead the court. Doing so can lead to losing the ability to practice law.