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Re:Australia to produce seaweed cattle feed that reduces met... by triyambakam on Thursday September 24, 2020 @11:52AM (#24579827)
There's no need to focus on just one. However people are passionate about advocating for eating a plant based diet because it is so easy, relatively speaking. Getting fracking to stop at even just one site is a lot of work, but getting more and more people to stop eating animal products, because it's directly within their own control, is simple. Many are also passionate about it because there are other benefits that come with it - no longer needing to kill sentient beings (you probably wouldn't eat your dog, so why eat a pig who is of equal awareness and intelligence?) and as long as it's based on whole foods, eating plant based comes with a lot of health benefits compared to how most people's diet is (in the West or Western influenced - e.g. a lot of Koreans and Chinese have hugely increased their animal product consumption and started including animal products they didn't previously eat like cow milk cheese).

So again, we can work on more than one issue, but why there is strong passion behind diet is that it's a very direct action and comes with other positives.

Re:Australia to produce seaweed cattle feed that reduces met... by tassl on Thursday September 24, 2020 @01:15PM (#24580956)
It is not as simple as you think, and there is quite a bit of people cannot be healthy with such diet.

> Many are also passionate about it because there are other benefits that come with it - no longer needing to kill sentient beings (you probably wouldn't eat your dog, so why eat a pig who is of equal awareness and intelligence?)

Plenty of "sentient beings" are killed for crop farming. I am not even sure meat eaters cause more deaths than most vegans, specially if they are not pbd.

Re:Australia to produce seaweed cattle feed that reduces met... by triyambakam on Thursday September 24, 2020 @02:11PM (#24581616)
Crop deaths tho!

Do you realize that /more/ animals die from crop harvesting for feeding animals? Because if you aren't raising animals for food, you don't need to harvest crops for them. The net amount of crop deaths goes down.

Further, it's the fallacy of perfection - we can't stop all deaths, but we can do our best to get as many as possible unnecessary deaths to end.

Veganism is about what is practicable - i.e. what can be done in practice, not perfection.

Re:Australia to produce seaweed cattle feed that reduces met... by throwaway0756 on Thursday September 24, 2020 @03:13PM (#24582392)
I mean, if someone cares that much about real practical death reduction of sentient beings, they wouldn’t be vegetarian, they would eat grass fed beef.

One death for hundreds if not thousands of meals. That or seafood if you don’t consider shrimp sentient.

Re:Australia to produce seaweed cattle feed that reduces met... by triyambakam on Thursday September 24, 2020 @03:23PM (#24582497)
That's also fallacious thinking because you're knowingly murdering a being, i.e. it is a requirement that the animal is killed to eat it. But when practicing veganism, there is no requirement for murder. That is, while crop deaths may happen, it is not a requirement that it does. We could in fact engineer machines that don't kill animals while harvesting crops, and in fact "crop deaths" is wildly overblown by meat eaters as an argument. Statistically it is not significant.

What's further, you're wildly under estimating how much food the death of one cow would give you.

These are all super common arguments against veganism and easily disproven

Re:Australia to produce seaweed cattle feed that reduces met... by tassl on Thursday September 24, 2020 @03:45PM (#24582729)
> (...) while crop deaths may happen, it is not a requirement that it does.

Wait, so just because you consider that it is not a requirement, it is ok? The reality is another and veganism could be ending the world and you would be defending a best case scenario that doesn't exist?

> Statistically it is not significant

Have you ever worked in fields? I haven't spent significant amount of time there, but I have spend weeks in a farm owned by relatives. I don't know what you call significant, but the meat processing that happens there is not "not significant". Rodents, snakes, even foxes. And all that without counting insects.

> These are all super common arguments against veganism and easily disproven

I don't think so. You are just using some higher moral ground to defend your position: "I don't want deaths; yes they happen but they are not a necessity for my beliefs".

All that without considering the damage we could be making to the human race. We don't know the impact of large scale veganism on long term health.

Re:Australia to produce seaweed cattle feed that reduces met... by throwaway0756 on Thursday September 24, 2020 @03:36PM (#24582624)
I don’t think you can easily hand wave the logical inconsistency here.

Rats and rabbits are killed all the time on farms, it’s just how it is.

> That is, while crop deaths may happen, it is not a requirement that it does.

I don’t understand how ignorance that your diet kills sentient beings is an excuse.

> We could in fact engineer machines that don't kill animals while harvesting crops

That’s not the case now though

Re:Australia to produce seaweed cattle feed that reduces met... by tassl on Thursday September 24, 2020 @03:50PM (#24582789)
> we can do our best to get as many as possible unnecessary deaths to end.

What if the best way to decrease (unnecessary) deaths is to consume animals?

Re:Australia to produce seaweed cattle feed that reduces met... by mmm_grayons on Thursday September 24, 2020 @02:07PM (#24581554)
> you wouldn't eat your dog, so why eat a pig that is of equal awareness and intelligence?

For what it's worth, I probably wouldn't eat my dog, but I'd eat a dog with no reservations.

Re:Australia to produce seaweed cattle feed that reduces met... by triyambakam on Thursday September 24, 2020 @02:12PM (#24581634)
So your moral framework is arbitrary? Or it is flimsily dependent on your emotional attachments?
Re:Australia to produce seaweed cattle feed that reduces met... by mmm_grayons on Thursday September 24, 2020 @02:17PM (#24581702)
No, I don't believe there's anything wrong with killing animals for food, I just like my dog more as a pet. I don't believe there's something morally wrong about killing one's pet for food, either.
Re:Australia to produce seaweed cattle feed that reduces met... by triyambakam on Thursday September 24, 2020 @03:06PM (#24582307)
I am not claiming you said so. But you've rather affirmed again, you have an emotional attachment to your dog, so you won't eat it, so your moral framework is emotional based and is logically inconsistent
Re:Australia to produce seaweed cattle feed that reduces met... by mmm_grayons on Thursday September 24, 2020 @06:14PM (#24584301)
No, I seem to not be communicating my thoughts properly. My moral framework is, "killing animals to eat is okay." I have no issues with it. My preference is to keep my pet alive because I do not need him for food and I like him better as a pet. I didn't say I wouldn't eat him: I would have no moral issues killing him for food, though I probably wouldn't much like it. If not for the fact that animals that die of natural causes aren't very tasty, I'd probably eat him when he died.
Re:Australia to produce seaweed cattle feed that reduces met... by three_legs on Thursday September 24, 2020 @09:38PM (#24585729)
> I would have no moral issues killing him for food, though I probably wouldn't much like it.

You wouldn't much like the taste, or the act of it?

Re:Australia to produce seaweed cattle feed that reduces met... by three_legs on Thursday September 24, 2020 @11:23PM (#24586276)
So you have no emotional attachment at all to your dog? What benefit then do you get from your dog?
Re:Australia to produce seaweed cattle feed that reduces met... by mmm_grayons on Thursday September 24, 2020 @11:55PM (#24586423)
I'm saying that an emotional attachment doesn't affect whether I believe it's moral to kill him. It causes me to place a higher value on my dog such that I value him more alive as a pet than dead as food. Were I starving, I'd value him more dead as food. This value doesn't change whether or not it's moral to kill him.

As an analogue, I might have a car I like. The car could be worth more to me than its fair market value because of an emotional attachment, and that may mean I prefer not to sell it. If I'm in dire need of money, however, I'd probably sell it anyway.