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Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by coldtea on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @05:14AM (#24564787)
>Whether a proposition has a 50/50 split or not does not matter, if half your country is made up of bigots that doesn't mean that it isn't bigotry, it just means that you have a very large problem.

Morality (or what is "bigoted") is not a law of nature or an absolute, it's a societal convention (even murder is not an absolute "bad" - the US or Chinese or Saudi society deems capital punishment as immoral for example, whereas mine does not. Same for drug use or sale, and tons of other things, heck, even incest - not a big deal moraly in ancient Egypt, Westeros, and/or some parts of the rural South).

So it very much matters what the split was.

Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by nobody9999 on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @02:31PM (#24570304)
>even incest - not a big deal moraly in ancient Egypt, Westeros, and/or some parts of the rural South).

Actually, the only places in the US where incest (between adults) is legal are New Jersey and Rhode Island.[0] Which isn't exactly the "rural south," no matter what the bad jokes say.

[0] https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/incest-laws...

Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by coldtea on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @05:40PM (#24572401)
>Actually, the only places in the US where incest (between adults) is legal are New Jersey and Rhode Island.[0] Which isn't exactly the "rural south,"

Yeah, but I was going for where it's moral/casual, not for where it is legal :-)

Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by nobody9999 on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @05:53PM (#24572534)
>Yeah, but I was going for where it's moral/casual, not for where it is legal :-)

Do you have data to support that? It may well exist, but I haven't seen anything that makes such a claim.

Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by coldtea on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @08:40PM (#24574076)
Nah, actually it appears to be the Midwest:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/atyhay/us_states_m...

Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by srtjstjsj on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @09:03AM (#24566509)
> the US or Chinese or Saudi society deems capital punishment as

moral, not immoral

Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by jacquesm on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @05:28AM (#24564872)
No, it does not matter. If you are on the wrong side of history the size of the company you keep is irrelevant.

The US has no problem with capital punishment last I checked (nor do they have a problem with life imprisonment without a trial), maybe not the best example?

Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by Joker_vD on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @06:08AM (#24565151)
So basically, one shouldn't have wrong opinions, especially if they're publicly visible persons. Or rather, one is allowed to have wrong opinions (in private), but voicing them or goodness forbid, acting according to those, ist verbotten und un-Amerikane.
Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by jacquesm on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @06:14AM (#24565190)
Wow, what a huge strawman.

No, it is fine if you have wrong opinions. But be prepared to get the flak associated with those.

Nobody forced Eich to make a donation, but doing so publicly set him up for a confrontation with a substantial chunk of Mozilla's employees further down the line.

Just like a 'mild case of rape' could trip up a supreme court justice nominee. (Or at least, it should have.)

Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by coldtea on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @10:08AM (#24567233)
>No, it is fine if you have wrong opinions. But be prepared to get the flak associated with those.

That's not different than Stalinist Russia, the Inquisition, Nazi Germany, McCarthyism, some conservative backwater, etc.

If having "flak associated" with having wrong opinions is acceptable by your book, then those examples were all about free speech too. Their victims just got some heavy flak for their opinions.

Or is it bad only when it involves an execution? Rest assured than in most cases in those regimes an execution wasn't needed either. Most were just fired, or beaten up, or ostacized, or disallowed to advance etc., so that's ok I guess.

Doesn't even have to be the state to give "the flak". In the case of the Inquisition it was the church. And in other cases it has been an angry mob.

Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by FeepingCreature on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @08:56AM (#24566435)
"wrong side of history"

What does that even mean? If Prop8 had won, would it have been on the right side of history?

Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by eadmund on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @09:10AM (#24566581)
> If Prop8 had won, would it have been on the right side of history?

Prop 8 did win. I don't know if it is still on the books; it was rendered inoperative due to a later Supreme Court decision based, so far as one can tell, on neither the text nor the intent of the Constitution. In other words, whether one agrees with the decision or not, it was unconstitutional.

Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by FeepingCreature on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @09:19AM (#24566679)
Right, fair point, but I mean, the "wrong side of history" narrative tends to presume that either in the long run, whatever side is right will win, or that whichever side wins will be the right one. I think that's a very dangerous assumption either way that should really not be made into the core of a moral argument. Argue from universal principles, argue from universal emotions, argue from social health, argue from self-interest. But don't argue from your eventual presumed victory as if that's a reason in itself.
Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by inglor_cz on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @11:49AM (#24568440)
Not the OP, but "right side of history" sounds like shortcut for "opinions that I personally hold".
Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by srtjstjsj on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @09:06AM (#24566537)
Do you offer the same full-throated support of pushing pro-abortion activists out of their jobs over their "wrong side of history" opinions.
Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by coldtea on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @10:03AM (#24567160)
>No, it does not matter. If you are on the wrong side of history the size of the company you keep is irrelevant.

Sorry, that sounds like something Nazis or the Maoists in the "Cultural Revolution" would say. "Wrong side of history" is historical determinism and teleologism.

Who is on "the wrong side of history" determined by consensus itself. And it can be as fickle and temporary as anything.