Agreed that those are excellent podcasts! Ezra Klein is one of my favorites and I am always delighted by how he seems to productively engage with people on his show. His guest list is also pretty diverse although it is mostly intellectuals.

I don’t think much is lost to the world by not engaging with Trolls or Quacks. There seems to be a weird kind of “both sides” going on where people seem to think that they should be heard from whereas there are so many interesting folks I would rather choose to listen to instead.