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Re:Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians by golergka on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @05:18AM (#24552491)
One of the main human drives in life is to provide for their children. Why shouldn't you be able to spend all the resources you can to give your kids advantage?

What I find curious about this discussion, which often occurs when people discuss what advantages are fair and unfair, estate tax and the like, is that they perceive each human being as a completely independent actor. Whereas for me, at least, it's more natural to think in terms of families. If the first generation achieved success, should it be reset in the next one? Why? The example you're talking about, with people reaching incredibly high success from nothing, are exceptions; usually it takes two or three generations at least.

And it's never only about money. Family culture, outlook toward education, work ethic, etc, these things survive when the family loses all of it's fortune or goes through even more dramatic events — though it's easier to notice when you live in a country that lived through a couple of revolutions, bloody wars and a couple of genocides in the last century than in US.

Re:Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians by brazzy on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @05:32AM (#24552576)
> Why shouldn't you be able to spend all the resources you can to give your kids advantage?

Because it's absolutely toxic for society as a whole if inequality gets amplified over generations.

Estate tax should ideally be 100% above a reasonable cap. And by "reasonable" I mean a sum definitely below "never needs to work to support a middle class lifestyle".

> If the first generation achieved success, should it be reset in the next one?

Yes, absolutely.

> Why?

Because many opportunities are essentially zero-sum.

Re:Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians by nullsense on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @05:49AM (#24552668)
I think it's bad if runs rampantly forever as eventually someone nefarious (which is more people than you might think) accumulates too much power and turns large swathes of society into a machine that benefits only them to everyone's detriment.

But at the same time it seems the pursuit of wealth engenders risk taking that brings about benefits for large swathes of society and turns society into a machine that constantly improves itself.

I like the game as it is, but perhaps a healthy modification would be to add a reset button where every couple of hundred years the slate is wiped clean and it all just starts again.

Tbh, I think that happens naturally though usually after a society has destroyed itself due to the first problem.

It'll happen to this one too eventually, so I don't see the need specifically to try to structure things in a way that will never go wrong or end badly. I don't think you can actually accomplish that with any one structure. It seems to be a game where some people win until it's game over and everyone loses.

Just my 2c.

Re:Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians by brazzy on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @07:00AM (#24553057)
>I think it's bad if runs rampantly forever as eventually someone nefarious (which is more people than you might think) accumulates too much power and turns large swathes of society into a machine that benefits only them to everyone's detriment.

It's bad longe before it gets to that point, just less obvious.

> But at the same time it seems the pursuit of wealth engenders risk taking that brings about benefits for large swathes of society and turns society into a machine that constantly improves itself.

Putting a cap on inheritance would not impede that in the least. Quite the opposite: inequality prevents a lot of risk taking and improvement from happening.

> I like the game as it is, but perhaps a healthy modification would be to add a reset button where every couple of hundred years the slate is wiped clean and it all just starts again.

That doesn't sound healthy at all because it represents an unneccessarily huge disruption.

Re:Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians by nullsense on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @03:51PM (#24559022)
>That doesn't sound healthy at all because it represents an unneccessarily huge disruption

It's no different than you or I dying, just on a much bigger scale. It's a huge disruption, sure, but that's sort of the point. Civilizations come and go, as do the people in them. There are just too many variables for things to be able to persist in a stable state in perpetuity.

Re:Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians by golergka on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @06:12AM (#24552794)
Well, that almost looks a classic conflict of interests of a society versus interests of an individual, but only at the first glance. Because when you dig in, you realise that it's the most successful and capable individuals that are most interested in building something for their children and next generations of their family — and that's the most marginalised and useless ones that have to get the most by redistribution. And the more you enact redistribution policies in one country or another, the more those types of individuals self-select. The ones who're most able to build and create something will always be able to leave. Ones who complain about disadvantages, on the other hand — those you're stuck with, I'm afraid.
Re:Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians by brazzy on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @06:56AM (#24553031)
And if you dig in a little deeper, you realize that that's a bunch of social Darwinist bullshit perpetrated by those already rich who stand to gain the most from inequality - No different from the concept of nobility in centuries past.

Very telling are those "ands" and what's left out: "successful and capable (implied: rich)". "marginalised and useless (implied: poor)". Those traits don't go together automatically at all unless you use circular logic to define them in the first place.

Re:Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians by golergka on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @12:45PM (#24556744)
> that's a bunch of social Darwinist bullshit

I perfectly understand why this stance makes people angry, but you haven't provided a single argument on why is it false.

Re:Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians by brazzy on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @01:00PM (#24556966)
You've overlooked the fact that I wrote more than one sentence, perhaps?
Re:Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians by Ensorceled on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @05:23AM (#24552520)
I'm not sure why you interpreted the comment you are replying to as an attack on the actions of rich people instead of a complaint about societies failure to provide opportunities to poor people.

Perhaps because you know those two things are linked?

Re:Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians by coliveira on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @05:22AM (#24552516)
In these countries, what survives more than anything else is political connections. If your family has the right friends you can do well, even after big setbacks.
Re:Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians by Gibbon1 on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @06:13AM (#24552798)
Or just your family knows how to teach you how move in the upper culture. I always come back to how much of life is a confidence game. You can often get pretty far if all you have is knowing how to play the game.

I often think people that grow up in disadvantaged circumstances have a major problem a) Learning the wrong game. Sometimes one that ultimately gets you in trouble. b) not knowing how to play the other game. The one that unlocks all the opportunities.

Re:Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians by andi999 on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @05:25AM (#24552533)
I saw a remark by Miltom Friedman, basically he think beiing able to inherit your wealth to the next generaltion is one of the biggest drivers of the economy.