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Re:What is the value of browser diversity? by cxr on Sunday September 20, 2020 @05:49PM (#24537723)
> So, if browser diversity is important, how do we keep it?

The same way it happened 10 years ago. If your non-techie family and friends for some reason have desktops or notebooks and not just phones and tablets, then ask them to use Firefox (or install it for them yourself). If they don't want to use Firefox but they have a MacBook, check if they're using Chrome, and if so, ask them to use Safari instead. If they're interested in getting a computer and want a recommendation, suggest they get a Mac instead of a Windows machine, and get them to use Safari or Firefox instead of Chrome. If they're trying to decide between an Android device and something from Apple, tell them that either is acceptable, but if they go for Android, ask them to install and use mobile Firefox instead of Chrome.

If a techie friend is thinking about starting a project and there's a chance that they'll choose Electron, ask them to consider building on top of WebKit instead. In general, spread the word far and wide that WebKit exists and avoid feeding into the popular misconception that the only choices are Firefox or Chrome. If you yourself are interested in alternative, non-mainstream browsers, look first for a WebKit-based one, and maybe consider contributing yourself. However, if you're already using Firefox and consider it acceptable, try to keep using it instead of switching to WebKit. If you're looking to switch, try holding on as long as possible, but make sure your criticism is clear. (And it should be well-informed, too; as Frank Hecker mentioned, albeit more politely, there are too many people talking out of their ass when it comes to Mozilla. That goes for detractors and advocates. The level of uninformedness every time Mozilla comes up—including the tweets quoted in the article—is pretty unreal.)

Re:What is the value of browser diversity? by saagarjha on Sunday September 20, 2020 @06:17PM (#24537907)
WebKit has a problem that nobody of consequence ships it on Windows and Android, the two largest operating systems by usage share. Until someone fixes this, Firefox is the only meaningful alternative.
Re:What is the value of browser diversity? by ckcheng on Sunday September 20, 2020 @06:27PM (#24537965)
Right, and it makes me wonder if it'd be better for Firefox and diversity of browser engines for FF to use WebKit.

Looking at the StatCounter Aug 2020 stats [1], ignoring browsers less than 2% usage share (because I'm lazy), it looks like:

Chromium based = 74.53%. Safari = 16.82%. Firefox = 4.09% (but effectively 0 on mobile).

And that's with Apple forcing WebKit on Apple mobile devices.

Throwing Firefox's 4% into WebKit could be like strategic voting to strengthen the opposition, stop splitting the vote, and reduce Mozilla's cost of maintaining FF (keeping their recent layoffs in mind).

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers#Su...

Re:What is the value of browser diversity? by saagarjha on Sunday September 20, 2020 @07:15PM (#24538230)
I remain unconvinced that a Blink-WebKit duopoly would be a better situation than what we have now. For one, Apple has more than enough money to fund WebKit development, and I am not sure the sudden addition of the Firefox team would be welcomed or beneficial there. And while Gecko and WebKit share many of the same goals, they diverge in parts of the browser I consider critically important, such as extensibility. Even if Firefox has low market share I consider their contribution to the browser space to be much more than their usage share would imply.
Re:What is the value of browser diversity? by ckcheng on Sunday September 20, 2020 @07:34PM (#24538343)
> such as extensibility

That's a fair point. I very much value FF's extensibility.

Re:What is the value of browser diversity? by userbinator on Sunday September 20, 2020 @07:15PM (#24538235)
if it'd be better for Firefox and diversity of browser engines for FF to use WebKit.

Of course not. If all browsers effectively turn into slightly different UIs for WebKit, that is zero diversity.

Re:What is the value of browser diversity? by ckcheng on Sunday September 20, 2020 @07:32PM (#24538330)
To be fair, I never advocated for "all browsers" to use WebKit.

My suggestion is in terms of "strategic voting" [1].

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_voting

Re:What is the value of browser diversity? by PretzelFisch on Sunday September 20, 2020 @10:46PM (#24539295)
It may no longer be the case but didn't chromium start as a webkit fork? would Firefox being another Webkit fork be as usefull as a fully seperate implemntation of the standards?