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Re:CEO of Cyber Fraud Startup NS8 Arrested by FBI, Facing Fr... by squashua667 on Friday September 18, 2020 @12:47PM (#24519019)
- where are the contracts corresponding to revenue? Yeah they are an SMB SaaS but this is financial, there will be contracts, NDAs, etc

SMB, especially the small end of SMB, does not often have contracts. It's more subscription based. That said, there were 2 versions of the software running at NS8. One was the original software that Adam Rogas and a co-founder created early on. That version was rather "opaque" and reported growing customer numbers every month. The newer version of the software was controlled by the product dev team but still reliant on the original software in some key areas. Basically, everything was obfuscated well enough to confuse everyone to the point where answers of, "it's a limitation of the original software" were taken at face value.

- if the customers are fake there is no load on the system. How does engineering not figure that out?

There were real customers and the customer growth was happening, especially in 2020. The problem is that the customer base and growth was nowhere near what Adam Rogas was cooking up on the backend.

- How does no one see an insanely low COGs when paying the cloud services bills, or the lack of allocated resources when looking in the management interfaces?

COGs and other bills were kept relatively high. It's also why the company hired 200+ people, to make the story all the more believable.

- How does no one notice a complete lack of analytics or actions being generated by all the supposed customers?

Again, real numbers were difficult to gather for excuses given repeatedly by Adam Rogas and others charged with providing those numbers. I'm not saying that others were complicit in the scam, but that they were (at least) being fed the same excuses the rest were. Investments were never made to bring visibility to the customer metrics. Was this a red flag? Yes, but then why are investors giving NS8 so much money? It's hindsight 20/20.

- Managing cash flow would be very hard. Finance is going to see all this revenue coming in and want to scale. The VCs are going to want to see money being spent on marketing activities etc. to further the growth. If there’s no corresponding revenue being spent to acquire customers but tons of revenue coming in that’s a giant red flag

Right, so plenty of money was being spent across the board. There were 2 bank accounts according to the DOJ and SEC complaints. The account for "customer revenue" was solely controlled by Adam Rogas. The other account held the investment funds that paid all the bills. Is this super shady? Yep. And it seems there was an NS8 whistleblower who kicked off the initial SEC investigation and then the FBI getting involved as well.

Re:CEO of Cyber Fraud Startup NS8 Arrested by FBI, Facing Fr... by billyhoffman on Friday September 18, 2020 @12:57PM (#24519136)
Obviously something terribly shady is going on here. I’m not disagreeing with you, I just don’t understand how any director level position, let alone an executive, wouldn’t be able to see serious irregularities if such a significant percentage of revenue was phony. There are just way too many knock-on effects when the overwhelming majority of your customers aren’t real, aren’t paying you, and aren’t putting any load or impact on any of your other systems (technical or otherwise). That is some bullshit clown shoes management across the entire company right there

And the CEO or others saying “oh yeah you can’t see all those customers and growth because they’re in this old legacy system that doesn’t report it” is an insane excuse to buy. Holy shit you mean to tell us that the majority of our most important revenue is coming from a legacy systems that we have zero insight into? And it’s continuing to grow? Why aren’t those people on the new system?

> “customer revenue” account controlled solely by the CEO

I cannot fathom a VP of Finance, let alone an outside accounting firm, that would be OK with this arrangement of accounts.

Edit: To be clear I’m not trying to blame the victims. This is a terrible loss to all the employees who have been pouring so much of their efforts into the company. I just am having a hard time understanding how such a thing could happen. Maybe I’ve just been blessed to work in extremely transparent organizations.

Re:CEO of Cyber Fraud Startup NS8 Arrested by FBI, Facing Fr... by squashua667 on Friday September 18, 2020 @01:02PM (#24519198)
>> “customer revenue” account controlled solely by the CEO

> I cannot fathom a VP of Finance, let alone an outside accounting firm, that would be OK with this arrangement of accounts.

Right? Then again, EY audited everything and gave those fake bank statements the "thumbs up" as part of the last round of funding and due diligence on the part of the investors. Crazy.

Re:CEO of Cyber Fraud Startup NS8 Arrested by FBI, Facing Fr... by toomuchtodo on Friday September 18, 2020 @01:25PM (#24519484)
Wasn't EY also the firm who audited Wirecard? Why is anyone taking their audits seriously?

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/ey-chairman-...

Re:CEO of Cyber Fraud Startup NS8 Arrested by FBI, Facing Fr... by ev1 on Friday September 18, 2020 @02:36PM (#24520339)
EY were also the ones that audited and passed WoSign and StartCom SSL CA's that were fraudulently issuing bad certs and violating CAB regulations.
Re:CEO of Cyber Fraud Startup NS8 Arrested by FBI, Facing Fr... by tluyben2 on Saturday September 19, 2020 @03:47AM (#24525895)
When I was a young and naive c-level exec (CTO), the CEO of the company was lying about the numbers to investors and everyone else, but neither me or the coo noticed as we thought it was not our concern; we were doing our jobs which was not finance. While the judge gave us a slap on the wrist only when the company suddenly turned out to have no money, he said it was definitely part of our job to at least validate the numbers. But I know enough people now who will say it is not their job and if the ceo signed off, it is enough for them. So I can see it happen. We had clients (big ones) and we were just not privy, nor interested to be fair, to the contract size. The changes were things like 800k$ product sale heightened to 1.8m etc which was not really unlikely to us or investors. We should have checked...
Re:CEO of Cyber Fraud Startup NS8 Arrested by FBI, Facing Fr... by pstoica on Friday September 18, 2020 @01:03PM (#24519207)
We can't fathom it either!
Re:CEO of Cyber Fraud Startup NS8 Arrested by FBI, Facing Fr... by acruns on Friday September 18, 2020 @03:19PM (#24520838)
"if the customers are fake there is no load on the system. How does engineering not figure that out?

There were real customers and the customer growth was happening, especially in 2020. The problem is that the customer base and growth was nowhere near what Adam Rogas was cooking up on the backend."

This doesn't really answer the question. The article states 40-90% of customers were fictional, as a cloud architect I would have to design based on the number of customers ++ and of course I would setup monitoring and alerting with auto scaling and it would be blatantly obvious that my utilization was not going up and that would turn into an engineering investigation.

Would it leed me to the idea that most of our customers were fake? probably not. They might not even request additional capacity, but as a architect that would lead me to ask questions. For example after an announcement or company meeting where they announce the number of new customers, I would wonder wtf? How is it that we haven't added any more capacity for all these new customers?

I would see some red flags and I would like to think I would be smart enough to start looking for something new but I haven't been in such a situation thankfully.

It's difficult to read about 200 ppl being laid off and the impact on them and thier family all bc of one stupid, greedy person.

Re:CEO of Cyber Fraud Startup NS8 Arrested by FBI, Facing Fr... by solumos on Friday September 18, 2020 @05:05PM (#24521883)
> For example after an announcement or company meeting where they announce the number of new customers

Nothing like this ever happened, AFAICT

> I would see some red flags and I would like to think I would be smart enough to start looking for something new but I haven't been in such a situation thankfully.

"Brazen fraud" is not where Occam's Razor leads in this case. "Transparency growing pains" seems much more likely. Specifically - if working for this company I would raise concerns that there aren't KPIs being regularly tracked across all functions. I'm sure it's possible that some of the newly hired senior management was working on this.