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Re:Digital banking, now halal by doesnotexist on Friday September 18, 2020 @11:10AM (#24517748)
There is little to no difference between what the article is describing, a halal certificate on some financial instruments and the Kosher or Halal stamps you see on food products at the grocery store. In this case there is a consumer demand for products labelled Halal and it is being met by a body deemed to hold legitimacy in determining compliance, how this becomes a discussion about defending the entirety of a broad concept like Sharia is perplexing.
Re:Digital banking, now halal by bckygldstn on Friday September 18, 2020 @11:41AM (#24518180)
Scale makes a difference here. Kosher food isn't in large enough demand in the US to transform the entire agricultural industry, so non-adherents still have real choice.

A closer example might be the MPAA (US film rating group). It's a voluntary certification, but it's become a de facto requirement such that the small, opaque, non-government group shapes the level of violence (high) and nudity (low) in all TV and films.

Re:Digital banking, now halal by doesnotexist on Friday September 18, 2020 @11:44AM (#24518223)
Surely most people will continue to be able to find a bank that will lend them money under familiar terms of interest. I find it hard to believe or take seriously that an Indonesian body certifying financial instruments of debt as Halal is going to upend JP Morgan and the western banking system en masse.
Re:Digital banking, now halal by davchana on Friday September 18, 2020 @10:12PM (#24524260)
Exactly, in my religion/culture eating Halaal is forbidden, because of 100s of years of wars with Muslim Rulers. Forcing or scaling Halaal to transform the market that we non users have no choice will be totally unacceptable.
Re:Digital banking, now halal by pc86 on Friday September 18, 2020 @11:25AM (#24517968)
Is a "halal certificate on some financial instruments" a relevant thing outside of Sharia law? This is a serious question. Are more moderate Muslims okay with interest, or is it pretty much across the board? I'm sure you can find some of any group okay with just about anything, I just mean in general. I'm not sure where on the spectrum of atheist to Islamist something like this falls.

Right or wrong I have always associated refusal to use traditional banking a more hard-line Muslim belief.

Re:Digital banking, now halal by DanBC on Friday September 18, 2020 @01:03PM (#24519205)
Don't you think it's weird to have such strong opinions about something you don't know much about?
Re:Digital banking, now halal by pc86 on Friday September 18, 2020 @01:17PM (#24519374)
I think it's weird to frame my honest questions as having strong opinions.
Re:Digital banking, now halal by LatteLazy on Friday September 18, 2020 @01:56PM (#24519858)
Did I misunderstand the article? I thought it said you were REQUIRED to have a certificate in order to operate...

Edit:

For most Sharia fintech startups, MUI certificates are not only commercially advantageous but legally required by the Financial Services Authority of Indonesia (OJK), the state financial regulator. Other areas of the Sharia digital economy, like halal e-commerce and umrah sites, travel-booking platforms for Islamic pilgrimages, do not require this certificate.

So yes for fintech, maybe for ecommerce in general?

Re:Digital banking, now halal by doesnotexist on Friday September 18, 2020 @04:05PM (#24521316)
Conventional banking and finance remains the bulk of activity within the country and I do not believe this announcement is declaring conventional products banned from the market at large. Rather I think this requirement only applies to a small section of the Indonesia financial industry, approximately 10% of the market.

https://www.ojk.go.id/en/berita-dan-kegiatan/siaran-pers/Pag...

Participating in the Indonesian sharia finance economy would be more akin to something like organic certification on produce. Most farms are not organic but if you want to label your products as such then you have to undergo a certification process with an agency like the USDA. In this case to be certified Halal you have to gain the MUI certificate which is recognized by the OJK Financial Services Authority of Indonesian. However, an Indonesian person is likely better person to clarify this more precisely.

Re:Digital banking, now halal by LatteLazy on Friday September 18, 2020 @04:21PM (#24521487)
But it applies to all of the fintech sector right? You cannot start or operate a fintech without religious permission? And by extension, forcing customers to buy products they don't actually want (sharia when they want non sharia).
Re:Digital banking, now halal by doesnotexist on Friday September 18, 2020 @04:53PM (#24521791)
I don't believe it's a blanket requirement, it's rather that if you want to market your product as being Halal then you have to get certification. Perhaps have a look at lemparin2020's comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24518270 who appears to be an actual Indonesian who is more familiar with the article's subject matter. lemaprin2020 says:

>>Well obviously. If you want to build a halal certified banking product it has to be implement syariah principles, thats the point.

Re:Digital banking, now halal by LatteLazy on Saturday September 19, 2020 @04:00AM (#24525943)
The article explicitly states it is a requirement. If you want to build a non halal certified product... You can't.
Re:Digital banking, now halal by doesnotexist on Saturday September 19, 2020 @10:58AM (#24527840)
I see that you are determined to take that away from the article even if it is incorrect.
Re:Digital banking, now halal by morelisp on Friday September 18, 2020 @05:42PM (#24522166)
> For most Sharia fintech startups, MUI certificates are... legally required

Nowhere does it say that most fintech startups, let alone most finance, are are seeking that classification.