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Re:The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now liv... by mywittyname on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @12:41PM (#24494378)
> I have noticed that most millenials seem to have completely forgotten the concept of "starter home" and assume that as soon as you turn 25 you should be entitled to a 4 bedroom house with a pool, huge yard, wonderful neighborhood, three-car garage, etc.

"Starter homes" for young people is the stuff that was built 30-40 years ago that hasn't been updated. So they are buying those mcmansions because that's what was built in the 80s-90s-00s. The really nice, older urban areas with housing built before that is way more expensive in absolute dollars.

Smaller is not cheaper in most cases. Smaller is "established" and everyone with money wants to live in those established neighborhoods, not the suburban sprawl 50m from the city center.

Re:The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now liv... by snowwrestler on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @01:47PM (#24495185)
This is a solid point; my house seems like a classic starter home physically: a 1930's brick duplex with less than 1,000 square feet. But it's in 1930s neighborhood close to the city... so my "starter home" has a market price well over half a million dollars!

Price correlates more with location than size, at least around here. "Starter home" prices don't start to show up until you get to the wrong end of a 1-hour commute. And most of those less-expensive houses are physically larger than mine, because no one has built houses under 1,000 square feet for decades.

Re:The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now liv... by tidepod12 on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @01:20PM (#24494855)
>"Starter homes" for young people is the stuff that was built 30-40 years ago that hasn't been updated. So they are buying those mcmansions because that's what was built in the 80s-90s-00s. The really nice, older urban areas with housing built before that is way more expensive in absolute dollars.

In my metro (DFW), the neighborhoods of houses built in the 60s/70s/80s are dwindling because nobody will buy them. There are neighborhoods of perfectly fine ~200k houses just sitting on the market for months because "ewww, I don't want to live in Grand Prairie/Garland/Irving". Then those same people pine over the newly built $500k mcmansions in Frisco or the $2m mansions in Highland Park and lament about how they'll never be able to afford being a homeowner. Do you see the disconnect?

>Smaller is "established" and everyone with money wants to live in those established neighborhoods, not the suburban sprawl 50m from the city center.

It's not some secret that desirable location is a huge driver of property prices, and being closer to a city center is more desirable. My parents knew this 50 years ago, which is why even though they loved living downtown in an apartment, when it came time to buy a house they moved out to the suburbs because that's where the affordable starter homes are. Then, when they became more established in their career and built up some wealth, we moved a little bit closer to the urban center. That's just how it works. But these days, millennials seem to think that they are automatically entitled to live downtown in a 4 bedroom, newly renovated/constructed house with full amenities next to the main park and hip shopping center and zero crime while on an entry level salary. I understand that, and I wish I could have that too, but that's just not how the world works (nor how it has ever worked).

Re:The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now liv... by pnutjam on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @04:28PM (#24497394)
Sounds like the 200k houses need to come down in price.

This is another reason people are burned on "starter homes". You can't get your money out if you need to move. Cheap houses are in undesirable areas and you can't sell them, better to rent.

Re:The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now liv... by arrosenberg on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @04:35PM (#24497496)
> In my metro (DFW), the neighborhoods of houses built in the 60s/70s/80s are dwindling because nobody will buy them. There are neighborhoods of perfectly fine ~200k houses just sitting on the market for months because "ewww, I don't want to live in Grand Prairie/Garland/Irving". Then those same people pine over the newly built $500k mcmansions in Frisco or the $2m mansions in Highland Park and lament about how they'll never be able to afford being a homeowner. Do you see the disconnect?

An alternative hypothesis would be that suburban development patterns don't work generally. I don't know anything about the DFW area specifically, but it's possible people don't want to live in those cheaper areas because they are poorly laid out and the infrastructure maintenance is higher than the revenue the area can generate. This may manifest itself in different ways (poorer schools, sidewalks, amenities), but one way or another, these neighborhoods are signaling decline.

Many first and second generation suburbs are in death spirals because of this problem. Buyers who can afford it chase newer development because the areas have an optimistic future and no obvious maintenance problem. Unfortunately, many of those areas will be in the same spot 30 years down the line.

> But these days, millennials seem to think that they are automatically entitled to live downtown in a 4 bedroom, newly renovated/constructed house with full amenities next to the main park and hip shopping center and zero crime while on an entry level salary.

I'm not saying there aren't some entitled people, but I haven't encountered this attitude very often - it seems like there are plenty of other reasonable explanations for what is driving consumer choices without stereotyping.

Re:The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now liv... by chasd00 on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @04:06PM (#24497070)
I live in DFW as well (Oak Cliff), one thing to keep in mind about home prices are schools. In East Dallas, on the border of Lakewood schools, there's literally a $100k difference between one side of the street and the other. A good public school in DISD is rare and so home prices around it are very high.

I think the quality of the local school drive home prices considerably.

Re:The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now liv... by tidepod12 on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @05:46PM (#24498351)
I notice and acknowledge this as well, but it's the same conversation about starter homes: if you are currently childless and you were to become pregnant today, you would not start using or benefiting from a school district at all for another 5-6 years. Why pay the premium for a nicer school district that you aren't even using? You're essentially just throwing away that money for half a decade, and who's to say if that school district will still even be a good one 5 years from now.

Why not move into a cheaper starter home now, and then once your child is about to start school (and you presumably have gotten some raises and built up some wealth), move into a more expensive house in the better school district? That's what the entire concept of "starter home" is about.

So now the conversation becomes: it's not that this person can't afford housing, it's that they can't afford housing that has an amenity they won't even use... which makes the entire situation seem even more silly.

Re:The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now liv... by thatfrenchguy on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @08:01PM (#24499557)
"Not a good school district" is usually a proxy for "not my social class / ethnicity" ;-)
Re:The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now liv... by ethbr0 on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @01:09PM (#24494712)
Single point of reference, but my 1985-built house was constructed at a much higher standard than my 2010-built house.

The properties of wood and physics have remained surprisingly constant over the decades.

Re:The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now liv... by kevin_thibedeau on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @02:30PM (#24495760)
It's not a single point. Builders are cutting corners any way they can. Interior trim is expensive to install so they just declare that the modern trend is bare walls, floor to ceiling that you can bang up easily. Tract home inspectors will skip over most units so you can leave out flashing around windows and doors. This is their mentality.
Re:The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now liv... by klmadfejno on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @03:30PM (#24496567)
On top of this, if you buy a house that is 40 years old, it's more likely to have problems and deteriorate in the future. Housing is, frankly, terrifying as a financial asset. If it goes up, great! If it goes down, you can easily lose YEARS worth of wages when sold at a loss, if you're able to sell it at all.

I would have not much of a problem living in an old place. I'd have a lot of skepticism to conquer about purchasing one.

Re:The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now liv... by thatfrenchguy on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @08:00PM (#24499545)
50 meters from the city center sounds like the dream !