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Re:Amnesty International denied access to court in the Assan... by harry8 on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @09:03AM (#24492268)
This piece of news has been interpreted by user stevespang. the fact his comment is now dead and the fact that Amnesty Interntaional are being denied access to this trial really support his point of view. The comment should not be dead, to be clear about it.

I disagree in that I still hope it's merely arrogance and exceptionalism by the UK courts thinking, unlike courts in poorer parts of the world, they are utterly above reproach in all things and so there is no need for Amnesty International at the trial of a publisher who has reported and published evidence of war crimes. For all that arrogance I hope the court will make the correct decisions according to statute and precedence.

The job that has been done on Assange has been astonishingly effective. People don't /like/ him enough to notice his rights being removed are precisely their own rights and are removed for all. I put him with Tony Blair, George Bush jnr, Hilary, Donald, Boris as someone I would cross the road to avoid having to talk to - as is my right. It's also my right to note that it matters not at all in defending the rights of all of these people to fair due process because even the worst asshole imaginable's rights are yours and mine. Of my list of assholes above, I think Assange is the only asshole with no evidence to suggest his actions have actually killed anyone at all. Blair and Bush jnr in particular deserve fair trials so they can rigorously defend the extremely prevalent belief that they did kill people, knowingly, making decisions supported with jusification made in bad faith to enable the actions leading to the carnage. I would completely support their rights and Amnesty being present at their trials.

The rule of law and equality before it is the most important thing to ensure civilisation continues.

Re:Amnesty International denied access to court in the Assan... by shadowgovt on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @10:30AM (#24493041)
It reads more like exceptionalism on AI's part.

AI: "We demand access to monitor the trial."

UK: "You are free to monitor the trial as a member of the public."

AI: "No, we demand physical access and the right to a reserved seat to monitor the trial."

UK: "From the Crown's point of view, you are a public institution and have the same rank as any other public institution. The auditorium seating is ----> thataway."

This is not to say that AI having reserved seating to oversee the trial couldn't be useful, but it's understandable why the UK might choose not to treat them as a privileged observer.

Re:Amnesty International denied access to court in the Assan... by mywittyname on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @10:51AM (#24493244)
>but it's understandable why the UK might choose not to treat them as a privileged observer.

Sounds more like a justifiable way of minimizing the legal support available to the defendant, and control the flow of information to the public.

Re:Amnesty International denied access to court in the Assan... by shadowgovt on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @12:16PM (#24494096)
They're a charity and a private institution, not a legal arm of the UK, an oversight organization of the EU, or a division of the UN. They have as much legal authority as any other private institution.

Not to say that it wouldn't be a good idea for AI to have the privilege of oversight of any court proceeding in the UK. But I believe such a thing would have to start as law from the Houses, not the discretion of an individual judge. If there is precedent to the contrary, I will stand corrected.

Re:Amnesty International denied access to court in the Assan... by k1m on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @01:24PM (#24494908)
According to Amnesty, "Amnesty International monitors have gone to Guantanamo Bay, Bahrain, Ecuador, Turkey, and Hungary, among many others, to observe trials as officially recognized fair trial monitors." - https://twitter.com/JuliaHall18/status/1306200278207782913

I guess it's too much to ask of the UK though.

Re:Amnesty International denied access to court in the Assan... by dependenttypes on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @02:12PM (#24495510)
> They're a charity and a private institution, not a legal arm of the UK

Just like the Internet Watch Foundation. Being a private charity does not mean much for the UK.

Re:Amnesty International denied access to court in the Assan... by jopsen on Thursday September 17, 2020 @12:18AM (#24501144)
The fact that the courts cannot accommodate an organization like amnesty international should be be concerning.

It's appropriate for the court to take steps necessary to ensure not just a fair trial, but the apparence of a fair trial.

If you fail to ensure the apparence of a fair trial, you undermine the court.

It saddens me that the court can't ensure a trial that is beyond criticism, especially in a case this controversial. It gives serious credibility to people claiming this is a sham trial. Because a fair trial should go out of it's way to also appear fair.

Re:Amnesty International denied access to court in the Assan... by jellicle on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @12:34PM (#24494299)
Um, I believe AI is seeking physical access to the trial because they have sought - and were specifically denied - remote access to it.

If you want to write some justifications for why the government is refusing to let the public watch a video of the proceedings, then knock yourself out.

Re:Amnesty International denied access to court in the Assan... by shadowgovt on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @12:52PM (#24494511)
It appears they have exactly the same access as the rest of the public, from their own tweet.

https://twitter.com/JuliaHall18/status/1306197900289019904/p...

Re:Amnesty International denied access to court in the Assan... by boomboomsubban on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @01:33PM (#24495017)
They let in around five members of the public. So yes they have the same access, which is no access.
Re:Amnesty International denied access to court in the Assan... by shadowgovt on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @03:04PM (#24496213)
"Be sure to get up early and be there on-time" is hardly no access.

It's AI that's requesting special treatment. I think it'd be cool if the UK passed a law making it so, but it seems less cool if a trial judge decides unilaterally to go outside of the norms and allow it. Isn't AI's goal to make sure norms are followed?

Re:Amnesty International denied access to court in the Assan... by boomboomsubban on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @04:33PM (#24497461)
Yeah, I don't think "waking up early" is going to help if they only let in five people.

Did you read her Twitter thread you keep posting? The reason she is requesting "special treatment" is so that the spots allocated to the public wouldn't be used. They are trying to use their authority to push for more people allowed to attend.

>Isn't AI's goal to make sure norms are followed?

No, the goal is to try and ensure that a tryly public trial is held.

Re:Amnesty International denied access to court in the Assan... by greatpatton on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @02:07PM (#24495429)
That would be a nice narrative if it was really possible to access the courtroom. Only 5 persons of the public are allowed in, meaning there is no access.
Re:Amnesty International denied access to court in the Assan... by shadowgovt on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @06:00PM (#24498497)
Five people allowed access is more than zero people allowed access. "No access" would mean zero.
Re:Amnesty International denied access to court in the Assan... by V6HBGNQHU on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @12:57PM (#24494566)
The fact that AI was denied access seems like support for them being there. If the court behaved in a way that would be consistent with them allowing AI, then AI would not need to observe.
Re:Amnesty International denied access to court in the Assan... by happytoexplain on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @09:33AM (#24492530)
Looking at that user's history, I can't find a single living comment. In just the first few pages are these standout examples of why:

"Endless babel from that region of the US we care the least about: NY"

"The feminazi apparati found you."

This article may be totally reasonable, but your example of an unfairly silenced user doesn't appear to be.

Re:Amnesty International denied access to court in the Assan... by btilly on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @12:27PM (#24494218)
Of my list of assholes above, I think Assange is the only asshole with no evidence to suggest his actions have actually killed anyone at all.

Actually there is evidence that his actions started a number of civil wars. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing depends on your perspective, but certainly it lead to dead people.

See https://www.zdnet.com/article/wikileaks-how-the-diplomatic-c... for more.

Re:Amnesty International denied access to court in the Assan... by acqq on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @02:36PM (#24495845)
I don't see that the linked article or the one linked from there to support their claim (1) provide support for the claims you state.

1) https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/dec/07/wikileaks-tuni...

Re:Amnesty International denied access to court in the Assan... by btilly on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @06:06PM (#24498548)
His actions were far from the sole cause, but they certainly contributed. The chain of causality being that he created Wikileaks and solicited releases of confidential US information. The confidential US cables then became public. The information in those cables helped start civil wars.

This may seem tenuous, but it was pretty much what he was hoping for. http://web.archive.org/web/20070129125831/http://iq.org/cons... describes what Assange hoped Wikileaks would accomplish before it had accomplished anything. Said purpose was to make it harder to maintain authoritarian conspiracies.

Given that, the fact that his actions caused trouble for authoritarian conspiracies in the Middle-East is an intended consequence.

Re:Amnesty International denied access to court in the Assan... by Fnoord on Thursday September 17, 2020 @04:23AM (#24502317)
> This piece of news has been interpreted by user stevespang. the fact his comment is now dead and the fact that Amnesty Interntaional are being denied access to this trial really support his point of view.

Not really (non sequitar). He's shadowbanned (see their submissions and comments).

The particular comment doesn't add much either; its merely an opinion, nothing more. Not a well argued one either while we're at it. That doesn't mean they should or shouldn't be allowed to have the opinion, nor does it mean they're right or wrong. It merely means its a shallow post.