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Re:Emacs is special regarding UIs by BeetleB on Thursday September 10, 2020 @02:00PM (#24434871)
> Your complaint on the documentation reads oddly. You do know there is a tutorial included, right?

The tutorial covers only the very basics. It's less than 1% of the material in the manual. And I definitely agree with him - most Emacs manuals (whether for Emacs or for some packages) are written more as reference manuals than something to learn from. If you're lucky some of them will have a tutorial in the beginning.

Re:Emacs is special regarding UIs by taeric on Thursday September 10, 2020 @04:32PM (#24436295)
But this was my point. Most of the documentation is a reference manual. Is why I referenced the user's manual for a car. You will not be using that to learn how to drive a car. Nor will you use it to learn how to build or maintain one, really.

So, to that end, what makes the manual of VSCode/Atom/Sublime good? Since there is an implicit comparison to those as a good comparison.

Re:Emacs is special regarding UIs by M2Ys4U on Thursday September 10, 2020 @07:06PM (#24437525)
VSCode/Atom/Sublime all operate broadly the same way. To continue the car analogy, there's a wheel right in front of you, two or three pedals by your feet and a gear stick next to you.

In this analogy, emacs' accelerator is on the ceiling, the bake hangs off the side and to steer you need to tap out the morse code for the words left and right on the dashboard.

Can you become proficient using that kind of interface? Probably.

Can you change the interface to something more sane? Sure, but you have to first learn how to weld...

Re:Emacs is special regarding UIs by taeric on Thursday September 10, 2020 @07:26PM (#24437664)
I think that is being deliberately unkind to emacs. It would be closer to comparing it to a car designed 30 years ago in a country that drove on the other side of the road. Most all of the major points are the same, just in a different location.

Even better, compare it to driving a boat, when you've been used to cars. (Or, for that matter, realize that it is a stick shift car when you've been used to automatic. And slowly realize everyone has a slightly different way to get their system running as an automatic.)

Re:Emacs is special regarding UIs by BeetleB on Thursday September 10, 2020 @07:57PM (#24437858)
Given that I love Emacs, I hate to disagree with you, but I must:

This is like a car model that came into existence 40 years ago, but is still making cars today.

Ford is over a 100 years old. Yet I have no problem getting into a rented Ford and driving without consulting the manual.

Re:Emacs is special regarding UIs by taeric on Thursday September 10, 2020 @10:20PM (#24438554)
As someone that used to drive a lot of rentals, I think you overstate how seamless it is to get going in a car. More, I think this glosses over how difficult cars used to be, to operate. With how unreliable early spark plugs and carburetors were, it is hard to state how far things really have come.

And my point is I agree that vanilla Emacs can feel spartan. Thing is, my customizations have aged really well. My config for Emacs hasn't changed too much in over a decade. That kind of stability is hard to put value on. Especially when our industry seems to price itself on instability.