There are other 3 letter agencies and 3rd country jails for that and That and this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposition_Matrix I would not be hard to convince me that NSA inputs can place a person on these.

When you find a way for a country to exist with 0 enemies, please let us all know.

Don't change goal posts now. I responded to your claim

> I'm very sure that you're wrong. Do you have any evidence that the NSA kidnaps and tortures people?

that NSA can get people tortured or killed without much difficulty.

Do you think the NSA gives the orders on who to kill and who to kidnap?

"Order" not sure, "recommendations" very conceivable. Anyway the issue is not NSA issue is the freedoms and protections offered by the country. If NSA doesnt but CIA does, its not any better.

You started with the claim that unlike China an US citizen is unlikely to get his/her privacy encroached on quoting all sorts of processes. I just gave examples where these processes didnt do much in preventing breaches of such encroachments. Add to that what we know is just a clouded view into the tip of the iceberg because of provisions of secrecy. If the clouded tip of the iceberg looks the way it does, it is not hard for someone not so deluded, or not so deprived of a full deck, to fill in what the rest of the iceberg could look like.

The examples you included do not show that Americans have their rights deprived without legal oversight. The exception is drone striking Americans who are overseas plotting imminent terrorist attacks.

That's an arbitrary opinion that you are holding on to. Being a target of warrantless search is not a sign of the land of the free.

If you disagree show me the proof of

> Americans who are overseas plotting imminent terrorist attacks

Show me the oversight over Anwar Awlaki's assasination that went ahead despite the fact that he had never been charged with (let alone convicted of) any crime. Proof of oversight, if you please over the killing of his 16 year old son.

I can play the same game that you have been playing in asking nothing less than irrefutable proof that will stand in a public court. Hope you believe in upholding the same standards over yourself that seek in others.

If you cannot, then how is it different from other places where such proofs are not forthcoming after killings or incarcerations ?

So you just have the word of one activist? Sorry, that's not enough evidence for me to believe it. If the NSA wanted to unlock a random journalist's phone, they would be able to hack it.

>Do you have any evidence...?

It also links to another similar account a few days before that. And why would Egyptian activists make that up?

Plus, even if the NSA isn't regularly doing the kidnapping, torture, and killing themselves, they certainly help our other organizations do these things. Things like the disposition matrix, black sites, and locally with parallel construction all rely on their surveillance.

How did she know he worked for NSA? Did she have any way to verify he was an American or worked for the NSA? Do you think the NSA hires people who specialize in HUMINT? Why would he tell her he works for the NSA?

Too many unanswered questions. It's more likely she made it up because it gets people angry and that's what activists need to do.

If you have problems with other parts of our government, by all means criticize them and be an activist. Speak your mind and vote. Making up stuff about the NSA is intellectually lazy.

I will admit to being wrong on this one, as Egypt seems to have an NSA as well. A mistake, not a fabrication.

Personally, I agree with the other poster and view the NSA's collaboration as enough evidence, but had remembered seeing the Egypt thing last year.

Ah, I also failed to consider that Egypt had an agency named NSA. I feel dumb now.

> that's not enough evidence for me to believe it

One popular quote by Upton Sinclair comes to me mind.