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Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by ehnto on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @07:54AM (#24407493)
I think they mean pop music lacks musicality, most of what they listed were to do with sonic tricks that are not really tied to musicality or musicianship. Anyone with even a vague understanding of music can write a song on the same level as a pop song. Every now and then a great musician makes it into the pop scene, and you get interesting chord progressions, melodies and rythms. So it's not the pop style that's bad. But most of the time it's the same four chords, a riskless melody, and four to the floor percussion.
Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by tobr on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @10:08AM (#24408493)
> pop music lacks musicality, most of what they listed were to do with sonic tricks that are not really tied to musicality or musicianship

This is a paradox, though. You’re saying that one of the most popular types of music “lacks musicality”. The only way that can be true is if you start with a narrow and arbitrary definition of what “musicality” is.

If you examine the history of ideas of what is “real” or “authentic” or “objectively good” in music, who has been a proponent of those ideas through history, and why, you will find is that a lot of it is rooted in white supremacy. The idea is that a certain style of white European music is the only true music, and that other music is only valuable to the extent that it happens to fit within the theoretical frameworks developed around those styles.

I guess what I’m saying is, please watch this excellent video, “Music Theory is Racist” by Adam Neely: https://youtu.be/Kr3quGh7pJA

Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by ehnto on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @11:49AM (#24409569)
I had watched that a bit earlier, it is excellent. I am definitely aware of the vast expanse of music culture though, I think my use of the word musicality could better be replaced by the word substance.

I think saying western Top40 lacks musicality within the context of western music is a totally fine thing to do though, because it's not that it's something different and good. It's trying to be western music, but it's derivative and shallow interpretations of it. Western music being a broad brush, including many of the subcultures of music contained within somewhere like America.

Top40 is often the crap versions of the good stuff that's out there, cheap versions of the culture that dwells beneath. My main point is that it's popularity is not because of musical excellence regardless of what that excellence is for the given genre/culture, it's manufactured popularity through repetition and distribution. Sometimes they pick good songs to pedal, so I'm not saying Top40 contains zero good music. It's just not a good representation of the state of music culture by any means.

It's hard to talk about music without seeing it through your own experience, because it is a language you share with those who know it. Adam Neely about his Jazz Ambassador tour, said he felt he could connect only tangentially with the Mongolian performers. There was some crossover and they could speak some of the same musical terms, but there was much of their musical language that wasn't immediately compatible. Sort of like a French language speaker sometimes interjecting English words, you can hear them but you can't intuitively know the context, and unless you knew both you couldn't really comment on how well the sentence was executed. But of the genres that end up in Top40, I typically know good music in those genres, so I feel I am able to comment on their quality.

Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by UncleMeat on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @09:17AM (#24408057)
Complexity in pop music is driven by timbre and instrumentation rather than harmonic or melodic complexity - but timbre and instrumentation are no less valid forms of musical expression and complexity (talk to Ravel or Varese). The desire to judge all music based on the dominant ideas of 16-19th century european classical music seems to exist not to better understand musical expression but instead to let people feel superior to others.
Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by ehnto on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @09:51AM (#24408321)
I don't think exploration of timbre has been novel for just as long. EDM has been around for decades now which is where a lot of that exploration happens, yet count how many Top40 tracks just use the 808 and call it a day. Modern artists and classic artists all explored timbre, and there are modern artists doing just as much with timbre and musicality.
Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by JoeAltmaier on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @09:22AM (#24408087)
Ooorr... because those measures correspond to something in the experience, that humans have been found to value.
Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by UncleMeat on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @10:56AM (#24409036)
This is obviously wrong, because there are entire classical traditions (centuries or millennia long) from outside of Europe that prioritize musical features beyond traditional western harmony. Any claim that harmonic complexity is fundamental to human experience or uniquely valuable among musical expression is ignorance at best.
Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by JoeAltmaier on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @11:25AM (#24409333)
All words in my mouth.
Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by rorykoehler on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @08:09AM (#24407603)
A lot more goes into writing a song than a chord progression. Writing pop hits is an art few people master. That’s why so many hits are written by the same people. See Max Martin for example.
Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by readred on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @08:26AM (#24407707)
I thought writing a pop song was 10% talent and 90% marketing? Written by the same people because they gatekeep those marketing dollars.
Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by rorykoehler on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @08:39AM (#24407792)
There is massive competition to be a chosen producer or song writer. Being chosen as the one who is marketed is where the competition is. Their positions are earned.
Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by blaser-waffle on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @10:59AM (#24409075)
They're earned the same way big movie star roles are earned -- by knowing the right people or sleeping with the producer.
Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by rorykoehler on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @11:05AM (#24409128)
Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by maxmamis on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @10:24AM (#24408676)
> Anyone with even a vague understanding of music can write a song on the same level as a pop song.

Ok, why don’t you prove it by writing a hit pop song? Come back to this thread when you have your gold record, I’ll wait

Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by colinmhayes on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @11:11AM (#24409190)
The entire point is making the song isn't the hard part. Marketing and managing the artists image is.
Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by waaaaaaat on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @02:21PM (#24411211)
I don't even care about the actual gold record or any accolades of any sort. I'd love to hear the gold record level pop song written by someone with only a vague understanding of music. I have 0 respect for most modern pop music, but that's complete nonsense.
Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by ehnto on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @12:02PM (#24409704)
As the other commentor said, that's my point. I could write a song that sounds just like a hit pop song, but it wouldn't be a hit because the music that gets popular isn't the best examples of music, it's just the music chosen to be pushed and sold.