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Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by 29athrowaway on Monday September 07, 2020 @09:44PM (#24404502)
Based on the songs being aggresively pushed by record labels, it seems that the ultimate goals of mainstream music industry are:

- To glorify violence, substance abuse, disrespect of women, domination behavior, anti-intellectualism.

- To reinforce racial stereotypes, including fear of minorities.

- To make people superficial.

Songs are an effective way to deliver a message to be repeated over and over and over again until people break and assimilate the message.

Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by Sebb767 on Monday September 07, 2020 @10:01PM (#24404606)
I don't think you can say this in general. There are a lot of uplifting chart songs. On the point of substance abuse, yes, that's a topic. But in reality, young people just tend to talk about this and it's really hard to say what's cause and effect.

And I really can't see your points about superficiality, racial stereotypes etc. That niche surely exists, but it's far too hot for the big labels.

Lastly, on anti-intellectualism: Yes, those songs tend to not be too intellectually challenging, but I don't think that's bad. People tend to listen to those when partying or just relaxing ; it's okay to simply chill out sometimes. Most people don't want to read technical literature for coming down either and that's fine.

Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by staplers on Monday September 07, 2020 @09:54PM (#24404557)
The themes you mentioned are being pushed by more than just the corporate music industry.
Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by 082349872349872 on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @04:43AM (#24406448)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkES4anCYOw

> "It's all hip hop's fault, you see. Not the three companies who decide what you hear and see."

nice timing at 1:47, or decent 'shop skillz?

Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by gruez on Monday September 07, 2020 @10:20PM (#24404688)
>it seems that the ultimate goals of mainstream music industry are: [...] Songs are an effective way to deliver a message to be repeated over and over and over again until people break and assimilate the message.

It sounds like you're saying that the music industry is engaged in a conspiracy to change people's behavior. Is this a correct characterization? If so, is there any evidence for this conspiracy, or some plausible motivations? I'm not sure how the powers that be would benefit from people being more violent abuse drugs, or disrespect women, for instance.

Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by jariel on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @01:56AM (#24405565)
I wouldn't say the music industry is out to do anything but make money - however - 'shocking' makes more money.

'WAP' - was designed to break through the noise by being crude and shocking - a title that I literally cannot write :), and almost on cue, had a 'GOP Congressman' talking about the 'Godlessness' of it all, playing perfectly into the hands of the labels. Like comedy.

But it's a horrible song, because it's not meant to be one - it's more of a 'audio meme' meant to accompany the visuals media stars who made it. The press was more than happy to glom onto it for social reasons.

This is pretty toxic to music and 'driven' by the labels, though not specifically for any purpose other than making money.

MTV however - has always had a 'social change agenda' as part of their ethos.

Most of the best music is accompanied by something 'new' and possibly a little bit rebellious, but generally not 'shocking'. It seems every big artists curates an image, but usually it did not overshadow the music.

Since social media however, I'm not so sure. LadyGaga, however talented, seems to have always been 'visual first'.

The top 40, while always mostly crap, did have a lot of gems, it was guarded by people with 1/2 decent taste in music and there were always indies.

Now there's much, much more noise.

Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by menybuvico on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @03:02AM (#24405875)
The music industry has never hidden that they manipulate listeners into consuming more and more media, so it's pretty much the opposite of a conspiracy.

It's like saying the ad industry is conspiring to manipulate us into buying their clients' products and services.

Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by swiley on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @05:33AM (#24406734)
I don’t think conspiracies have to be secret.
Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by blaser-waffle on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @12:03PM (#24409719)
Yes, they do. Like, that's literally the definition of "conspiracy".

noun a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful. "a conspiracy to destroy the government"

Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by menybuvico on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @03:41AM (#24418382)
Precisely! "Conspiracy" requires a secretive element, whereas the media conglomerates are quite open with their goals to make everyone consume more media in order for them to make more money.
Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by Spooky23 on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @04:23AM (#24406326)
Conspiracy may be a little strong, but if you look at talk radio it’s pretty obvious that a formula was discovered that maximizes roi for the segment.

Music isn’t much different, there are just more variants. The goal is engagement, not social outcomes. Think YouTube recommendations, but slower motion.

Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by 29athrowaway on Monday September 07, 2020 @10:40PM (#24404773)
Many conspiracies can be just explained through emergent behavior. For example, there could be demand for that music, and the labels are just creating content to respond to that demand... without any ethical considerations about what they're promoting, that is.

But to be honest, a conspiracy of some kind could be an explanation, who knows.

For some people, there are substantial tangible, material benefits to dumbing down society.

For example, the "gangster rapper" stereotype is pushed aggresively by the music industry. The popularity of "gangster rap" results in "gangster" aesthetics becoming fashionable, even among law abiding people who are not gangsters. However, when people see a person that resembles the "gangster" stereotype (purely based on their attire) pushed by the entertainment industry, they will be more likely to call 911, eventually resulting in an innocent person being killed for no valid reason. Is this a racist conspiracy? who knows.

Likewise, oversexualization results in people having unplanned kids, causing them to ultimately become poor, and more susceptible to predatory loans, low wages, political manipulation and all the machinery that exists only to abuse the poor. Similar to anti-intellectualism.

And then, glorification of violence, competition, non-compliance, etc... this just makes people very divisive, and in order to dominate a large population you want them to be as divided as possible, and constantly distracted with immaterial disputes while you lobby the government.

So, yeah... it could be a conspiracy. It is very profitable to make people vulnerable and susceptible to manipulation and abuse. Especially political manipulation, which is already prominent in American journalism.

It kind of resembles the psychological warfare techniques used by the Soviets (i.e.: ideological subversion). https://youtu.be/IQPsKvG6WMI?t=60

Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by pjc50 on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @04:33AM (#24406384)
In case anyone is paying attention to this conspiracy theory garbage, I suggest you look at the actual history of particular genres of popular music, especially of black origin, and how it was routinely suppressed. I only found out recently that Daddy Yankee (you may have heard of Despacito) had a lot of trouble with reggaeton being banned early on: https://nacla.org/news/reggaeton-nation
Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by bad_user on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @01:13AM (#24405385)
> conspiracy of some kind could be an explanation, who knows

Actually we do know. It’s safe to say that conspiracies involving a lot of actors are mathematically impossible.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by newen on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @07:53AM (#24407486)
Snowden’s leaks were about a conspiracy that involved many more than a 1000 people and it lasted for years. You get reports about one government program or another that’s been kept secret for decades. These are conspiracies.

Statistically improbable is different from mathematically impossible. It’s also much less improbable when the people involved have to join through rituals like government classification designations.

Again, government programs regularly involve much more than a 1000 people and are known to be kept secret for decades. These programs are clearly conspiracies.

Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by bad_user on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @10:32AM (#24408760)
Not sure of what conspiracies you’re thinking of, but if actual evidence was leaked, then we are talking about a clear failure of those involved, therefore this is evidence for the claim that large scale conspiracies are indeed impossible ;-)

You can believe what you want of course, but from my POV when the discussion ends up in non-falsifiability land, you might as well talk about the existence of God or Santa Claus, an interesting discussion for sure, but not one that can yield any useful insight.

Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by newen on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @01:43PM (#24410752)
If it is possible for a significant period of time, then it is possible. Saying something is impossible because it "only" lasted for 50 years is stupid.
Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by 29athrowaway on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @01:58PM (#24410921)
Organized religion involves millions of people and is still alive and well.
Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by 29athrowaway on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @11:24AM (#24409320)
Can this model be used to accurately predict real data? How reproducible is this research?
Re:Is Spotify Killing the Top 40? by colinmhayes on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @11:20AM (#24409281)
The ultimate goal of the main stream music industry is to make money. Those are just what they've found to be the most effective ways to do it.