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Re:Cloth masks do protect the wearer by HenryKissinger on Monday August 31, 2020 @07:04PM (#24336758)
Can wearing or not wearing a mask to protect oneself from covid-19 be regarded as an example of natural selection at work? Where mask wearers are most adapted to survival in their environment and non-mask wearers are not?
Re:Cloth masks do protect the wearer by beervirus on Monday August 31, 2020 @07:13PM (#24336821)
Covid mostly is not killing people of reproductive age. So mostly no.

Anti-maskers are killing their parents, not themselves.

Re:Cloth masks do protect the wearer by 29athrowaway on Monday August 31, 2020 @07:49PM (#24337080)
And people with vitamin D deficiency, regardless of age.
Re:Cloth masks do protect the wearer by cookingrobot on Monday August 31, 2020 @07:07PM (#24336777)
Unless non-mask wearers are seen as more attractive and so have more offspring. Too soon to know.
Re:Cloth masks do protect the wearer by misanthropian00 on Tuesday September 01, 2020 @06:41AM (#24340315)
I have noticed that pretty girls seem to remove their masks more often. I think they miss being admired.
Re:Cloth masks do protect the wearer by thu2111 on Tuesday September 01, 2020 @05:28AM (#24339928)
Mask mandates were mostly introduced after the first wave of deaths. And there's apparently no second wave in most places, even when the tests indicate a second wave of positive RT-PCRs.

So - no. Mask wearers aren't going to experience any difference in death rates in the vast majority of places because COVID deaths have already ended. And of course, when they were occurring, there was a lot of bad reporting there which conflated people who were dying anyway with people unexpectedly killed by the virus.

Re:Cloth masks do protect the wearer by johannes1234321 on Monday August 31, 2020 @07:09PM (#24336789)
The mortality braze is high among elders who likely had their children already or won't get any. Younger people suffer from other conditions primarily.
Re:Cloth masks do protect the wearer by hervature on Monday August 31, 2020 @07:06PM (#24336768)
Not if it doesn't affect the reproductive population
Re:Cloth masks do protect the wearer by barbecue_sauce on Monday August 31, 2020 @07:08PM (#24336783)
I'm fairly certain he meant "natural selection" in an analogous way, where those "selected" are the population that doesn't contract the virus.
Re:Cloth masks do protect the wearer by hervature on Monday August 31, 2020 @07:09PM (#24336796)
Natural selection is a very specific natural process: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_selection
Re:Cloth masks do protect the wearer by boyobo on Monday August 31, 2020 @07:11PM (#24336810)
Why call it 'natural selection' then. That's just 'selection'.
Re:Cloth masks do protect the wearer by fancyfredbot on Monday August 31, 2020 @07:11PM (#24336811)
Mask wearing seems unlikely to be genetic. If it was genetic, there might be slight evolutionary pressure favouring those genes. I think the pressure would be slight as people of reproductive age are very likely to recover from the virus.
Re:Cloth masks do protect the wearer by discordance on Monday August 31, 2020 @07:20PM (#24336882)
Not sure about that. There are known genetic influences for risk aversion. If risk averse folks wear masks, and suffer less/survive more, then this potentially could be an evolutionary mechanism.
Re:Cloth masks do protect the wearer by fancyfredbot on Monday August 31, 2020 @07:36PM (#24336999)
Yes, but risk aversion has implications on things other than mask wearing. It's pretty unclear that risk aversion will be selected for because of the pandemic. The least risk averse are probably more likely to find a partner this year for example. Plausibly risk aversion might even be selected against!
Re:Cloth masks do protect the wearer by hatsunearu on Monday August 31, 2020 @07:18PM (#24336856)
Doesn't have to be genetic, it can also be memetic.
Re:Cloth masks do protect the wearer by ketamine__ on Monday August 31, 2020 @07:10PM (#24336807)
Masks aren't evidence based medicine. There isn't enough research. There are no randomized trials on cloth masks that are running.

If evidence based medicine isn't an advantage then it's down to luck?

Re:Cloth masks do protect the wearer by nicoburns on Monday August 31, 2020 @07:21PM (#24336895)
Isn't containing coughs and sneezes (along with hand washing, etc) one of the most fundemental parts of our understanding of how to prevent the spread of infectious diseases. The NHS has had the "catch it, bin it, kill it" motto for years as a way to prevent flu / common cold. There may not be studies specifically into covid-19 on this topic. But we do know that this is one of the primary spread vectors for basically every other similar respiritory disease. It's worth studying covid specifically just to be sure, but it would be bizarre if covid was different in this respect. And IMO it's completely wrong to say we have no evidence tht masks work.
Re:Cloth masks do protect the wearer by ketamine__ on Monday August 31, 2020 @07:26PM (#24336930)
> There may not be studies specifically into covid-19 on this topic.

There is only one study that looked at cloth masks and it was completed in 2015.

> And IMO it's completely wrong to say we have no evidence tht masks work.

I never said that. I'm saying that a high standard of evidence has not been met and there isn't much interest in running trials on cloth masks. The only one I could find is in Guinea-Bissau.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04471766

Re:Cloth masks do protect the wearer by anigbrowl on Monday August 31, 2020 @07:18PM (#24336859)
Here's some evidence for the proposition that masks mitigate droplet-based respiratory transmission to varying degrees: https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/08/07/sci...
Re:Cloth masks do protect the wearer by Ericson2314 on Monday August 31, 2020 @07:17PM (#24336855)
Both theory and empirical evidence. Mask wearing at least has the former: catching your own aerosols so you don't get other people sick so easily.

The best is remedies that have both. But don't think evidence without good theory is fine. I'm not sure it's even that much better than theory without good evidence.

Re:Cloth masks do protect the wearer by ketamine__ on Monday August 31, 2020 @07:22PM (#24336896)
That doesn't consider the possibly of a significant portion of the population infecting themselves. Remember, most people do not have the training to make a proper mask and use it correctly.

That's the reason we need randomized trials. How do masks work outside of the lab?

Also, it isn't accepted science that Covid-19 infects through aerosols.