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Re:Don't trust default timeouts by RhysU on Saturday August 29, 2020 @10:01AM (#24316155)
Not retrying is implicitly a way to cancel. Also, it is a codepath that's trivially tested vs the effort to test an extra cancel path.
Re:Don't trust default timeouts by asdfasgasdgasdg on Saturday August 29, 2020 @10:17AM (#24316263)
I'm not sure how testing timeouts is trivial compared to cancellation. They both take about the same amount of code to write a test for, IME. (Not much.)

Not retrying+timeouts has similar effects to cancellation. The operation ceases to go forward. But it is not the same. It's a lot more expensive than imperative cancellation (need to rebuild, resend, reparse the request) and it has a lot of production risks that waiting with cancellation doesn't. For example, naive retries can expose backends to thundering herds, and less naive retries can have strange issues caused by exponential backoff where you'll have requests sitting around doing nothing for half their own timeout, before giving up because the next retry did not hit before the end of the parent request's timeout.

Re:Don't trust default timeouts by RhysU on Saturday August 29, 2020 @02:35PM (#24318362)
All good points. By trivial I meant 2 tests (works/fails) vs 3+ (works/fails/cancel with the latter possibility having its own works/fails cases). A timeout is just a status code on failure.
Re:Don't trust default timeouts by marcosdumay on Saturday August 29, 2020 @10:16AM (#24316257)
Yet, if you are making an interactive application, that easy to test codepath is a great way to put bugs into your requirements.
Re:Don't trust default timeouts by orisho on Saturday August 29, 2020 @10:40AM (#24316416)
In Go, it is a single code path. Contexts can be canceled and they also come with propagating timeouts. The timeouts simply trigger a cancellation, so the only code path is handling cancellation.

There's nothing complicated about it, so there's no reason your code can't implement timeouts and cancellation the same way: timeouts are a cancellation triggered autonomously after some time passes.

Re:Don't trust default timeouts by RhysU on Saturday August 29, 2020 @02:37PM (#24318389)
Not disagreeing, but having trouble seeing it. Could you elaborate?
Re:Don't trust default timeouts by marcosdumay on Saturday August 29, 2020 @03:21PM (#24318730)
By adding that timeout you just created a user-visible behavior that nobody asked for and people will only notice in production while dealing with the most complicated use-cases.
Re:Don't trust default timeouts by RhysU on Saturday August 29, 2020 @03:46PM (#24318896)
Nobody asks for it but some choice must be made. As a user, I have often cursed things that hang indefinitely. And I don't trust application state after touching a cancel button. That stuff is seldom tested well.