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Re:Coronavirus is most deadly if you are older and male – ne... by nradov on Friday August 28, 2020 @12:00PM (#24306457)
Please stop gatekeeping and politicizing the discussion. We all understand that influenza and SARS-CoV-2 are different viruses. However there is significant overlap in symptoms (for example both can cause viral myocarditis) so flu provides a useful baseline for analysis.

Human society operates just fine with the risk of flu despite the high annual death toll. How much worse does another virus have to be in order to justify a qualitatively different approach? Is there a specific numeric threshold in terms of fatality rate or QALYs lost or severity of long-term effects?

Re:Coronavirus is most deadly if you are older and male – ne... by snowwrestler on Friday August 28, 2020 @03:45PM (#24309140)
It is not politicizing to point out that these are different viruses that cause different diseases.

Quite a lot of people do not understand the extent of the differences, in part because of repeated comparisons to the flu from earlier in the pandemic--comparisons which we now know were based on incomplete early impressions of the new disease.

Yes there is significant overlap in symptoms--hence the early comparisons. There are also significant differences.

Are these differences enough to produce complications worse than the flu? There's not enough evidence yet to know. I'm not saying "we're sure COVID-19 will have worse complications than the flu." I'm saying we don't know either way, so it's irresponsible to cite flu studies to imply we're sure there won't be worse complications than the flu.

Re:Coronavirus is most deadly if you are older and male – ne... by ryandrake on Friday August 28, 2020 @04:31PM (#24309604)
Plus, when you bring up any kind of comparison with the flu, no matter how nuanced you try to be, the general public just ignores all the nuance. Using the word "flu" anywhere near a COVID-19 discussion reinforces the "See, it's just the flu, bro" mentality that convinced vast swaths of people to downplay the disease.
Re:Coronavirus is most deadly if you are older and male – ne... by dr_dshiv on Friday August 28, 2020 @04:59PM (#24309876)
Worth mentioning that Hackernews isn't the general public. Don't need to worry about the moral hazard of nuance here.
Re:Coronavirus is most deadly if you are older and male – ne... by jjeaff on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:21PM (#24307471)
I don't know, but it is somewhere between covid and the flu.

Even with all the precautions, we've surpassed 175k deaths in the US. Imagine if we had been treating covid like the flu from the beginning?

Re:Coronavirus is most deadly if you are older and male – ne... by chrisjs96 on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:29PM (#24307563)
Yea just keep imagining. We'll never know. We could have had the same amount of deaths just by the older folks and at risk people quarantine themselves and everyone else keeps working. Then we could have had the jobs and money to help our neighbors pay for grocery delivery. People helping other people. Quarantining everyone is like punishing the whole class when one kid acts up. Now no one has jobs and we can't help each other. From what I know the older members of my family were already taking precautions. Why does everyone? If they are in contact with no one then we can't spread it to them.
Re:Coronavirus is most deadly if you are older and male – ne... by ethanbond on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:38PM (#24307692)
Man, if only there were some sort of organization that we could create and give immense power, capital, and reach to organize such efforts...
Re:Coronavirus is most deadly if you are older and male – ne... by chrisjs96 on Friday August 28, 2020 @03:36PM (#24309060)
You're a developer I'm assuming. You think the CDC is capable of developing a model that could predict this? As a developer I don't have much confidence for something like that. Netflix still can't recommend me a movie correctly with millions upon million data points and spending millions of dollars on it.
Re:Coronavirus is most deadly if you are older and male – ne... by ethanbond on Friday August 28, 2020 @05:35PM (#24310254)
No, I'm not a developer, and no, the CDC is not the organization that I'm alluding to, nor am I poking at the need for any sort of model. The need is for our nation's resources - at every level - to be organized and deployed effectively against this problem using the information available at any given moment. We have failed at this at nearly every level, at nearly every moment.

A good example is my mother who is a teacher. School started this week, and they've been changing their local guidelines/procedures until, well, they continue to change every day still. It should be no surprise, because these are a bunch of county-level educational administrators trying to figure out how to respond to a once-in-a-century epidemiological/social/economic event with effectively zero guidance. It's improv but with people's lives at stake.

Why hasn't the federal government, with the immense resources and power that we entrust to it, stepped up and provided clear guidelines for opening schools and the funding necessary to implement those guidelines? If the answer is that it cannot be safe to open schools, then why have they not stepped up to provide clear guidelines for moving classes online and the funding necessary to implement those guidelines?

This is well beyond the point of being an enormous national security threat. Our government has both legal and moral authority to organize our society. This doesn't mean martial law or nationalization - simply publishing good, clear guidelines for every type of establishment and making available the funding necessary to implement those guidelines. Those guidelines ought to include clear risk assessments that these establishments and their patrons can evaluate for themselves to gauge their level of risk acceptance for re-opening, re-closing, patronizing, or choosing to stay away from.

Instead we have an entire executive branch hellbent on retaining its power, regardless of how sick, destitute, and morally broken its kingdom winds up becoming in the process. It's equal parts pathetic and despicable. Vote.

Re:Coronavirus is most deadly if you are older and male – ne... by danmaz74 on Saturday August 29, 2020 @02:51AM (#24314211)
For the flu there is a vaccine every year to protect people in at risk groups. For covid, not yet
Re:Coronavirus is most deadly if you are older and male – ne... by tpnCC on Friday August 28, 2020 @02:22PM (#24308307)
"The High annual death toll" is most likely not as HIGH coz the numbers your hear about FLU fatalities are Statistical estimates, unlike that of Covid fatalities. https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/comparing-...

I'm not sure of Human societies operating 'just fine' with the risk of flu. We seem to operate just fine NOW because we make vaccines for the flu every year, and we have several years of experience in terms of Herd Immunity and Medical assistance.

We also do not have medical personnel dying in hundreds from flu every year as they catch it in line of service.

And the baseline of flu u refer to DID NOT HELP much with predicting or managing clots in almost every major organ when it comes to COVID. Sure, we have blood thinners etc. But when u hear from frontline workers in hospitals, the situation with clots is pretty dire. And this is a much bigger deal and the overlap with flu is very little, even in patients tht may seem to have recovered frm Covid. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/14/health/coronavirus-stroke...

Re:Coronavirus is most deadly if you are older and male – ne... by nradov on Friday August 28, 2020 @02:45PM (#24308533)
Influenza vaccines only started to become available in the 1940s. Are you claiming that human society didn't operate before that?

Influenza also increases the risk of blood clots and ischemia. So SARS-CoV-2 is nothing new in that regard, although the effects appear to be more severe.

https://vascular.org/news-advocacy/jvs-report-swine-flu-and-...

Re:Coronavirus is most deadly if you are older and male – ne... by tpnCC on Friday August 28, 2020 @03:34PM (#24309033)
I'm claiming the high death toll u seem to think of when talking of Flu fatalities ain't that high.

And I provided some evidence for it.

I'm hoping people will not underestimate how serious Covid19 is by drawing parallels to THE NUMBER of yearly Flu fatalities, coz the number of flu fatalities are much less compared to what gets reported every year.

Thts what the SciAm link I provided talks about.

Societies operated WITH a lot of Caution and Precautions in place before the vaccines. They still operate with caution for flu DESPITE vaccines as they do not provide complete immunity.

Look at how people celebrate elimination of Wild polio in Africa! It came AFTER several decades of human suffering and wide ranging precautions.

And the level of caution changes depending on the local medical infrastructure, dynamics of the spread, demographics, and the specific knowledge we have about the disease in question.

I also claimed that WE HAVE SOME IDEA on how to deal with blood clotting wen it comes to Flu. Your link itself shows that out right "Emperic Anticoagulation decreases VTE"

But we are not there yet, when it comes to Covid19.

We have people dying from strokes AFTER they were thought to have recovered from Covid. And these aren't necessarily 'edge cases' that arise from the tail end of large numbers of patients during a pandemic.

These are most likely due to absence of knowledge,data and insights into managing a novel disease. Just read through the NYTimes article. It's very detailed and specific about how we are falling short NOW in dealing with strokes and clots.

Which most likely is also true when it comes to predicting and managing long-term effects due to Covid, as indicated by these experiences of Covid 'long haulers' https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/08/long-haul...