Re:Palantir CEO rips Silicon Valley in letter to investors
by uniqueid on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @05:32PM
(#24287528)
It's no consolation to me that a company is giving transcripts of my personal conversations and medical records to the American government instead of the Chinese. I don't want you to collect my damned data. Period.
Re:Palantir CEO rips Silicon Valley in letter to investors
by manfredo on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @06:22PM
(#24287991)
Palantir doesn't collect any data. Palantir builds software tools to browse and analyze data. The government already has that data, and that data stays with the government not Palantir.
Re:Palantir CEO rips Silicon Valley in letter to investors
by chrstphrknwtn on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @10:17PM
(#24289538)
Exactly. Microsoft have a lot to answer for with their ‘tools’ for data analysis. Every single hedge fund was using Excel leading up to the 2008 financial crisis. It’s sickening. /s
Re:Palantir CEO rips Silicon Valley in letter to investors
by uniqueid on Thursday August 27, 2020 @02:58AM
(#24290803)
Has MS worked with government to make it easier to call
up records of my hemorrhoids or eczema?
If so, I'll reserve some hate for MS, too.
With billions of people on this planet, some terrorist kingpin and I might have the same birthmark on our ankle. Thanks to the work Palantir does, that could result in law enforcement swatting me, or worse. That is sickening.
Re:Palantir CEO rips Silicon Valley in letter to investors
by michannne on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @08:06PM
(#24288756)
Huh? They build a tool. If it's not Palantir then it'll be someone else, likely the NSA. I'd be surprised if they aren't already investigating ways to analyze without Palantir's help. Your scorn is misguided
Re:Palantir CEO rips Silicon Valley in letter to investors
by uniqueid on Thursday August 27, 2020 @02:47AM
(#24290750)
Not misguided.
It's not like Palantir is selling hamburgers to millions of faceless individuals. They themselves want to take the responsibility for their consulting for government agencies. I assign responsibility to them, too.
Can you think of examples of amoral company decisions from history? I can...
"Our bank just facilitated the deposit of enormous quantities of paper money. We didn't do the drug-smuggling."
"Our company simply supplied The Republic of ___ with ammunition. That was our only involvement."
"The government needed to sort incoming prisoners by religion. We merely won the bid to do the data-processing."
Palantir's arguments are more annoying, though, since the company management is not just amoral, but proud of itself.
Re:Palantir CEO rips Silicon Valley in letter to investors
by michannne on Thursday August 27, 2020 @03:42AM
(#24291038)
I don't see the point of any of those examples. You don't blame the bank when fraud happens through it's accounts unless the bank knowingly let it happen, your second example is a false equivalence as selling ammo to another country is definitely grounds for treason if we are at war with that country, not to mention the regulation surrounding the sale, and the third example is silly - if the government needed to discriminate against you, they don't need Palantir to do that, so why would you blame Palantir if they choose to get paid for something that will inevitably get done?
My point is you should be directing your criticism to government data collection practices that enable them to have data to process, once that 1st step is achieved, it doesn't matter who achieves step 2, 3, 4 or beyond, so your focus on Palantir is fleeting at best.
Re:Palantir CEO rips Silicon Valley in letter to investors
by uniqueid on Thursday August 27, 2020 @06:17AM
(#24292056)
In many cases: yes. It depends on whether the driver aids the criminal knowingly (eg: overheard "To my ex-husband's, driver! Can't wait to shoot him in the face"), and of the driver's own free will (eg: did not overhear "if you don't take me, I'll shoot you, too!")
Re:Palantir CEO rips Silicon Valley in letter to investors
by michannne on Thursday August 27, 2020 @12:14PM
(#24295145)
Ok, if the government says, "Hey Palantir, we have this data and we need you to group everyone by religion and political affiliation", is it then also Palantir's fault if the government uses that resulting analysis for discrimination?
Re:Palantir CEO rips Silicon Valley in letter to investors
by manfredo on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @07:53PM
(#24288660)
What exactly do you mean data collecting is bad and should be outlawed? Should banks no longer report financial transactions over $3,000? Should purchases of schedule II drugs no longer be recorded?
Again, I'm not sure if you understand what it is Palantir does. The fish is already identified: the government knows your name, your address, etc. The challenge lies not in identifying the fish, but identifying which fish are doing bad things.
To take a concrete example: Palantir was used to identify fraudulent pharmacies (aka "Pill Mills") and drug dealers using said pharmacies. Previously, analysts would sort purchases of certain classes of drugs by amount, and investigate from there. Drug dealers adapted by making multiple, smaller purchases none of which were large enough to attract the attention from analysts.
Using Palantir, analysts were able to identify people purchasing the same drugs on the same day at different pharmacies. That is suspicious. In addition to that, Palantir let them plot these purchases on a map, and link to a street view of the address. Clear patterns emerged, where dealers would purchase moderate quantities of drugs along a stretch of highway, often from pharmacies that did not have any external signage indicated that the building was a pharmacy. The government's ability to enforce laws is enhanced, but the data collected remains unchanged.
Re:Palantir CEO rips Silicon Valley in letter to investors
by thu2111 on Thursday August 27, 2020 @11:42AM
(#24294768)
“We have chosen sides, and we know that our partners value our commitment. We stand by them when it is convenient, and when it is not.”
I think we will start to see this as a perspective and stated position more and more. Companies are waking up to left wing employee-driven cancel culture being generally poisonous, as it constantly defines arbitrary new thought crimes that are seemingly unpredictable and which almost any company or group could be "guilty" of.
This makes partnering with explicitly SJ-focused organisations highly risky. Can any firm say for sure that they will still be welcome on Google Cloud next year (to pick a random example)? Yes? What if they're doing business with the US ICE? What if their service gets widely used by Trump fans? What if the CEO tweets unacceptable things? Some of these organisations are so in-hock to increasingly extreme minorities of employees that it's hard to say that a partnership is really safe, especially if you're only a small customer.
By explicitly stating that Palantir will service customers whether (politically) convenient or not, they are not only re-assuring their existing customer base but in addition, putting a stake in the ground that partnerships with Palantir are robust and Twitter-proof. Importantly they recognise that this means "picking sides": that you cannot reach agreement or compromise with the sort of people who now dominate firms like Google, Twitter etc. No matter how much ground is given up they will always want more, because their demands don't seem to be rooted in any coherent political theory (critical theory not being such a thing).
The other day unwoke.hr started going around. Its slogan is "Hire thinkers. Not activists". You're going to see more and more of that. Strong SJ/woke/BLM/etc type views are going to start shutting people out of career opportunities, as they will be associated with customer-confidence-killing demands and morale sapping internal conflicts.
Re:Palantir CEO rips Silicon Valley in letter to investors
by everdumb on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @05:40PM
(#24287599)
The engineering elite of Silicon Valley may know more than most about building software,” Karp wrote. “But they do not know more about how society should be organized or what justice requires.
The utter lack of self awareness is beyond shameful. As far as I can see Palantir wants to do with tech what Blackwater did with the armed forces and Peter Thiel is just a smarter version of Erik Prince.
If so, I'll reserve some hate for MS, too.
With billions of people on this planet, some terrorist kingpin and I might have the same birthmark on our ankle. Thanks to the work Palantir does, that could result in law enforcement swatting me, or worse. That is sickening.
It's not like Palantir is selling hamburgers to millions of faceless individuals. They themselves want to take the responsibility for their consulting for government agencies. I assign responsibility to them, too.
Can you think of examples of amoral company decisions from history? I can...
Palantir's arguments are more annoying, though, since the company management is not just amoral, but proud of itself.My point is you should be directing your criticism to government data collection practices that enable them to have data to process, once that 1st step is achieved, it doesn't matter who achieves step 2, 3, 4 or beyond, so your focus on Palantir is fleeting at best.
The point is that there is enough culpability to go around.
Re: my examples (in the same order)...
HSBC https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hsbc-usa-idUSKBN1E50YA
EDO MBM Technology ltd https://www.undocs.org/en/S/2018/594
IBM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust
It's a reasonable position to complain about a company who knowingly enables bad behaviour of a third party, even if they don't directly carry it out.
Tell me: is the bus driver culpable if the murderer took the bus to get away from the scene of the crime?
Collecting is bad and should be outlawed, but analyzing is the bigger threat.
Vast amounts of data in aggregate are useless. It's like a school of fish, the probability of any single one being targeted is difficult.
When you start applying tools that can identify the fish, now its a problem.
Again, I'm not sure if you understand what it is Palantir does. The fish is already identified: the government knows your name, your address, etc. The challenge lies not in identifying the fish, but identifying which fish are doing bad things.
To take a concrete example: Palantir was used to identify fraudulent pharmacies (aka "Pill Mills") and drug dealers using said pharmacies. Previously, analysts would sort purchases of certain classes of drugs by amount, and investigate from there. Drug dealers adapted by making multiple, smaller purchases none of which were large enough to attract the attention from analysts.
Using Palantir, analysts were able to identify people purchasing the same drugs on the same day at different pharmacies. That is suspicious. In addition to that, Palantir let them plot these purchases on a map, and link to a street view of the address. Clear patterns emerged, where dealers would purchase moderate quantities of drugs along a stretch of highway, often from pharmacies that did not have any external signage indicated that the building was a pharmacy. The government's ability to enforce laws is enhanced, but the data collected remains unchanged.
I think we will start to see this as a perspective and stated position more and more. Companies are waking up to left wing employee-driven cancel culture being generally poisonous, as it constantly defines arbitrary new thought crimes that are seemingly unpredictable and which almost any company or group could be "guilty" of.
This makes partnering with explicitly SJ-focused organisations highly risky. Can any firm say for sure that they will still be welcome on Google Cloud next year (to pick a random example)? Yes? What if they're doing business with the US ICE? What if their service gets widely used by Trump fans? What if the CEO tweets unacceptable things? Some of these organisations are so in-hock to increasingly extreme minorities of employees that it's hard to say that a partnership is really safe, especially if you're only a small customer.
By explicitly stating that Palantir will service customers whether (politically) convenient or not, they are not only re-assuring their existing customer base but in addition, putting a stake in the ground that partnerships with Palantir are robust and Twitter-proof. Importantly they recognise that this means "picking sides": that you cannot reach agreement or compromise with the sort of people who now dominate firms like Google, Twitter etc. No matter how much ground is given up they will always want more, because their demands don't seem to be rooted in any coherent political theory (critical theory not being such a thing).
The other day unwoke.hr started going around. Its slogan is "Hire thinkers. Not activists". You're going to see more and more of that. Strong SJ/woke/BLM/etc type views are going to start shutting people out of career opportunities, as they will be associated with customer-confidence-killing demands and morale sapping internal conflicts.
The utter lack of self awareness is beyond shameful. As far as I can see Palantir wants to do with tech what Blackwater did with the armed forces and Peter Thiel is just a smarter version of Erik Prince.