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Re:A Clean Start for the Web by Mandatum on Monday August 24, 2020 @04:18AM (#24258469)
As someone who has done a lot of work in XSLT for data transformation in ESB or integration..

Honestly if I actually improved my tools a bit better, I'd almost enjoy using it. But it sucks, so damn much, in the current state.. And now nobody seems to be interested in XSLT ("XML is legacy"), I don't think I'm ever going to be interested in "fixing" it.

Re:A Clean Start for the Web by ilovetux on Monday August 24, 2020 @04:35AM (#24258570)
This is sad because as Json seems to be taking over. Despite its terseness Json lacks a standardized way to do validation (ie xsd), transformations (ie xslt) and service definitions (ie wsdl).

Its regrettable that such a vast ecosystem exists for a markup language to facilitate its use in data transfer, transformation and validation.

It seems like a waste that so many working standards seem to have just been tossed away with nothing to put into their place because Json saves a few bits on the wire.

Also regrettable is the fact that there seems to be resistance in developing similar standards for json.

Re:A Clean Start for the Web by kungato on Monday August 24, 2020 @05:07AM (#24258750)
Json is not popular because it saves bits but because it's easily readable and maps 1:1 with js objects. I've worked with xml and xslt and while I see the advantages I still prefer json for anything. Your validation should come from annotated objects on the backend anyways which should be a single source of truth and then it doesn't matter which markup format you are validating
Re:A Clean Start for the Web by ilovetux on Monday August 24, 2020 @05:29AM (#24258886)
I can kind of see what you're saying, but what does "annotated objects on the backend" mean. If there is not a standard I can only hack a solution together. I cannot ensure anything with 100% certainty, instead I'm left guessing if my logic is correct.

With a standard, however, I can be sure that what I intend is being validated and if my logic is wrong then I can change it to match the spec.

Re:A Clean Start for the Web by dsego on Monday August 24, 2020 @08:15AM (#24259853)
Json schema maybe http://json-schema.org/
Re:A Clean Start for the Web by giantrobot on Monday August 24, 2020 @12:51PM (#24262530)
The tooling did/does leave a lot to be desired in XML workflows. I think, in XML's heyday, it was way easier to template with PHP/ASP/JSP on the server. While those languages could have just as easily spit out XML to be transformed on the client, writing the XSL was non-trivial and lacked good tools to make the process easier.

I find JSON to be a lackluster replacement for XML. The efforts to bolt on XML features (JSON Schema etc.) are half assed and not widely supported. Without a bunch of extra complication you can't really know what a value in JSON means beyond its translation to some primitive.

The web development world doesn't deserve XML! /s

I am a bit of an XML fanboy as it solves complicated problems in a logical way. I also bought into (and continue to believe) in a lot of Web 2.0 ideas beyond pastel colors and pseudo-reflections on logos.