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Re:Efficiency is dangerous and slowing down makes life better by jjoonathan on Friday August 21, 2020 @02:13PM (#24237398)
It is a fundamental law.

Systems theory has the concepts of "gain margin" and "phase margin" -- how much you can amplify feedback or delay feedback, respectively, before your self-adjusting feedback mechanism fails to find equilibrium and turns into an oscillator.

Even though most non-engineering systems don't fit the mathematical theory, the idea that only a finite amount of gain + delay is available, and that the two are somewhat inter-convertible, generalizes astoundingly well.

Re:Efficiency is dangerous and slowing down makes life better by bschne on Friday August 21, 2020 @02:43PM (#24237674)
Do you happen to know a good introduction to that? I‘d love to read up more on it!
Re:Efficiency is dangerous and slowing down makes life better by acidbaseextract on Saturday August 22, 2020 @04:04AM (#24242545)
Steve Brunton, a University of Washington professor has a sweet lecture series called the Control Bootcamp that dives deep into control fundamentals while still being approachable. Great production values too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi7l8mMjYVE&list=PLMrJAkhIeN...
Re:Efficiency is dangerous and slowing down makes life better by p-funk on Friday August 21, 2020 @04:31PM (#24238578)
This youtube channel has (seemingly good quality) Khan Academy style lecture videos on control systems, if you just want a quick introduction to the concepts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThoA4amCAX4

Re:Efficiency is dangerous and slowing down makes life better by dboreham on Friday August 21, 2020 @04:14PM (#24238450)
Re:Efficiency is dangerous and slowing down makes life better by themeiguoren on Saturday August 22, 2020 @12:46PM (#24245335)
Yeah, as a controls engineer I’ve worked on systems where the main requirement was not gain or phase margin, but a root sum square of the two. Nichols plots drive home the idea that it’s not really the margin at two discrete points that matter, but the close approach to the critical point.
Re:Efficiency is dangerous and slowing down makes life better by throwaway815190 on Friday August 21, 2020 @05:10PM (#24238924)
> It is a fundamental law.

> Systems theory

I'm confused. Is it a law or a theory? And no, it can't be both. Laws are proved. Theories are unproven.

Re:Efficiency is dangerous and slowing down makes life better by ska on Friday August 21, 2020 @05:56PM (#24239297)
You are confused, twofold:

"Systems Theory" in above refers to a field of study, not a name for the idea they were discussing.

And your assertion about Laws and theories is incorrect.

Re:Efficiency is dangerous and slowing down makes life better by Jtsummers on Friday August 21, 2020 @05:53PM (#24239269)
Well, those two statements aren't referring to the same thing. The law they reference is something found in Systems Theory.

It may be useful, also, for you to read these two pages:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_law

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

The difference between Law and Theory (in scientific discourse) is not what you believe it to be.

Re:Efficiency is dangerous and slowing down makes life better by throwaway815190 on Friday August 21, 2020 @07:37PM (#24240036)
> The difference between Law and Theory (in scientific discourse) is not what you believe it to be.

ELI5?

Re:Efficiency is dangerous and slowing down makes life better by omginternets on Saturday August 22, 2020 @08:35AM (#24243698)
Jtsummers' explanation is correct, but I wanted to weigh in with an easy rule of thumb, which you may find easier to remember:

1. A law gives you a relationship with no mechanism. It almost always appears as a mathematical formula. You know how the pieces change with respect to another, but not why.

2. A theory gives you a mechanism. It tells you why. On rare occasions, it will not provide quantifiable predictions, in which case it is a qualitative theory.

Re:Efficiency is dangerous and slowing down makes life better by Jtsummers on Friday August 21, 2020 @08:05PM (#24240275)
Well, I'm not interested in explaining this to a five-year old, but I'll treat you as an adult and use words over two syllables.

> Laws are proved. Theories are unproven.

This is not what is used to identify something as either a law or a theory in scientific discourse.

First, "laws" may be disproven, or falsified: Newton's Law of Gravity could actually be considered disproven as it is not accurate at all scales, but it's accurate enough within its scope to continue using it. It's considered a law in the sense that it matches empirical, observed data (within certain bounds). See [0] for details on that. So that, right there, is a flaw in your understanding.

Second, laws do not attempt to offer an explanation of the phenomenon they describe, they offer predictive value like "a ball dropped from 50 meters will, at time t, have velocity ...". Again, Newton's Laws do not explain why gravity works, only offering a model to calculate the effect of it. This brings us to theories.

Theories are, again, falsifiable via empirical evidence (like laws), but they offer an attempt at explanation. A Theory of Gravity would try to explain why objects are attracted to each other and why the mass effects the amount of attraction. The theory can be shown as false, but like a law it can only be shown to match empirical data. This is not the same as proven.

TLDR: The distinguishing characteristic is that both attempt to predict, but theories attempt to explain. Both are falsifiable, and neither are considered proven only to match empirical data (possibly within some constraints).

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_law_of_universal_gr...

Re:Efficiency is dangerous and slowing down makes life better by igravious on Friday August 21, 2020 @06:55PM (#24239746)
Your confusion is understandable. This misunderstanding surfaces every now and then on HN.

“Hypothesis. Theory. Law. These scientific words get bandied about regularly, yet the general public usually gets their meaning wrong.”

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/just-a-theory-7-m...