News for hackers. Stuff that matters.

A comment on Anti-Racist Arguments Are Tearing People Apart. Parent comment

Re:Anti-Racist Arguments Are Tearing People Apart by bbatha on Thursday August 20, 2020 @01:34PM (#24225974)
Criticizing "you guys" as a sexist term when describing a mixed gender group is a) true because there are multiple genders in the group and b) not a gotcha. She wasn't baiting you into saying sexist remarks to criticize you as a chauvinist. Her over enthusiasm may have been annoying sure, but calling it "gotcha" behavior is a way to casually dismiss anti-racists and anti-sexists without actually in their engaging arguments or even the slightest bit of self reflection.

> In modern anti-racism, not only does a gotcha not need to be justified with argument,

> would get a lecture about how using the word "guys" to a mixed sex group was being oppressive.

Sounds like you received a justified argument that you are choosing to ignore.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Anti-Racist Arguments Are Tearing People Apart by hirundo on Thursday August 20, 2020 @01:51PM (#24226194)
I ignored the argument because I could not have reasonably engaged with it and decided that I disagree?
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Anti-Racist Arguments Are Tearing People Apart by harryh on Friday August 21, 2020 @12:45PM (#24236515)
Do you think if people consistently referred to a group of people that included you as "hey girls" you would find it....a bit strange?
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Anti-Racist Arguments Are Tearing People Apart by hirundo on Friday August 21, 2020 @03:02PM (#24237844)
I think policing wrongthink in everyday conversation is about as effective as painting the correct reflection on a mirror. Real respect is earned.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Anti-Racist Arguments Are Tearing People Apart by harryh on Friday August 21, 2020 @03:15PM (#24237957)
So when you refer to a group of mix gendered people as "guys", it's an indication that you don't respect the women in the group? They haven't earned if from you yet?
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Anti-Racist Arguments Are Tearing People Apart by hirundo on Friday August 21, 2020 @03:25PM (#24238050)
I think the reference is orthagonal to respect, making the correction merely rude.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Anti-Racist Arguments Are Tearing People Apart by harryh on Friday August 21, 2020 @03:38PM (#24238151)
Well that brings me back to my original question (which you did not answer).

Do you think if people consistently referred to a group of people that included you as "hey girls" you would find it....a bit strange?

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Anti-Racist Arguments Are Tearing People Apart by hirundo on Friday August 21, 2020 @04:07PM (#24238405)
It's quite ordinary. Particularly in all male contexts where it isn't ambiguous, like construction or sports. Also "ladies". Metonymy is weird like that.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Anti-Racist Arguments Are Tearing People Apart by harryh on Friday August 21, 2020 @04:23PM (#24238530)
In contexts like construction or sports referring to an all male group as "girls" or "ladies" is derisive or, at the very least, sarcastic. It's interesting to consider the implications of that.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Anti-Racist Arguments Are Tearing People Apart by belorn on Friday August 21, 2020 @04:40PM (#24238661)
Have you noticed a strange pattern when people talk. When someone refer to people they don't know they tend to default to their own gender, unless there is a cultural clue, in which they then default to that clue.

I find it a interesting quirk of human behavior. It not very noticeable unless you listen for it, but once you do, it is a very noticeable during a conference with a high rate of speakers that do not share your own gender.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Anti-Racist Arguments Are Tearing People Apart by hirundo on Friday August 21, 2020 @05:44PM (#24239187)
It implies that they particularly value predominantly masculine virtues in their work, like physical strength and aggression. Which is sometimes reasonable and sometimes not.
[ Parent | on HN ]